Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

No one said it

Good faith my arse

Yes they did. You did.

and most posters greeted it with a shrug of the shoulders, and tacit agreement (thanks to the couple of posters who challenged you)

no transphobia my arse

As an experiment around Christmas at a bar, I went into the men's toilets. I was immediately challenged (quite rightly), when I said I identified as male (obviously bollocks), I got wordlessly but gently hearded out backwards and couldn't do anything about it. Definitely not accommodated. Saying I was redefining manhood, didn't seem to have much impact. I didn't try saying I was a trans woman. Maybe that would have been different.

I don't know what the answer is.

It always used to work in toilets. (It being 'illegal' but tolerated for transwomen to use the loos . With the option to challenge.

I'd personally like to be able to accommodate trans women in female toilets on that basis again.

I can't speak for other women though and I think gender ideology may have gone too far for that.

I would rather fully mixed sex facilities everywhere than ostensibly male and female toilets but based on gender identity and it being socially unacceptable to request a male leave.

I wouldn't feel threatened by you OP, you may well pass, you are clearly a sweetie, and you are being disadvantaged by this, but it is an open invitation to men abusing the open door, or more specifically the closed door.

If I said it, you can post a quote. But you can’t, because I didn’t.

Also, I don’t believe in such thing as ‘trans’, so I cannot be ‘transphobic’.

There are only two sexes and no one can ‘cross’ from one to the other.

based on gender identity

in this brave new world where would those of us with no gender identity be expected to pee?

Hi OP.

Frankly, I don’t care about your plea to women that you’re the special one who won’t do any harm and you think you pass because everyone around you is too polite to say anything. I don’t. And the reason I don’t is because your post is designed to manipulate - ‘I stand with you/I’m on your side.’

No, you’re not. If you were on our side you would already know why you should not be in that bathroom. Your fear of the male bathrooms has absolutely nothing to do with women. None. It has everything to do with male violence.

Women do not exist as a last resort safe place for anyone who fancies manipulating or lying their way into our category. It doesn’t matter how nice you think you are (or how nice you actually are) or how much you may or may not pass.

You not comprehending this basic point is exactly why women are having to fight tooth and nail for our rights. We are fighting for those rights for your daughter too. It’s unfortunate that you are too self-absorbed to realise you are not.

Do I sound harsh? You, and every other male is used to females bending and acquiescing to males because we have been socialised to do so. Because we have to play nice as a method of self-protection.

No more.

and most posters greeted it with a shrug of the shoulders, and tacit agreement (thanks to the couple of posters who challenged you)

I don't think most people are shrugging, I think most people aren't biting (and you'll note I did bite). We get a fair number of transphobes on here, most post something overtly and directly transphobic fairly quickly and get banned. The speed with which those comments are pulled is testement to the majority disagreeing with them.

PP is not doing that so, while I vehermently disagree, I think she's got the right to explain her views. I'm very happy for those posts to stand because it put her other, less overtly prejudiced posts, in context. I'm not going to carry on arguing because it derails the thread and I think others are doing the same.

Dickpandering

Well said @nilsmousehammer .

Frankly @bluepetergeneration I am at the point where your question of Where should I go to the toilet? will elicit the response from me of I don't care as long as it is not in the female only single sex toilets or the disabled toilets neither of them are for your use as you are neither female nor disabled. Your but I am not safe in the male toilets excuse is just that, an excuse. There is ZERO evidence of mass slayings or beatings up of TW in male toilets, many TW report they use them and have reported no incidents, not one. Every single male of my acquaintance from old to young says categorically they have no problem with TW using the correct facilities, the male toilets, alongside them, no issue whatsoever, I am not buying your unsafe story it's one you've created to justify your actions. You admit that you are using women as human shields because you think you will be unsafe and you think that is acceptable - it is not. You show no concern for the impact this has on women, how they feel, what they want or need and I am sick and tired of males putting their wants and desires above women's needs.

Oh, I’ve no difficulty with the posts standing. I’d rather these views were expressed, and challenged. And as I say, thank you for challenging them.

but others’ silence is very instructive.

I think most people

@donquixotedelamancha 🤔

I would have hoped that ‘most people’ on a feminist board, on a parenting website called mumsnet, would actually prioritise women’s boundaries and children’s rights and welfare over male entitlement and male convenience.

Obviously you are a believer, if you believe in transphobia.

I don’t think most people, like you, are believers or are okay with you welcoming men into women’s spaces.

I could be wrong of course, but I don’t have your Owen Jones-like confidence.

As I told my effeminate gay male acquaintance get off your arse , OP get Stonewall or any Trans charity to start a campaign to make male spaces open and accepting for all males; effeminate ones , trans-identifying males...

A good message, but the only way to make it really clear is to stop using the term 'gender'. Sex is sex is sex. No one can change it, no one can identify or fantasise out if it.

Every trans person self ids. There's no other way to get any diagnosis.

Who, as an adult, has been diagnosed, given surgery and hormones who hasnt activity seeked out that label and treatment?

I would have hoped that ‘most people’ on a feminist board, on a parenting website called mumsnet, would actually prioritise women’s boundaries and children’s rights and welfare over male entitlement and male convenience. Obviously you are a believer, if you believe in transphobia.

I've been on this site for a decade, my opposition to self-ID is consistent, if you'd like you can search my history. You've been posting on FWR for about 18 hours.

I don't think for one moment you are a feminist. I don't even think you are a real bigot. I think you are just someone who wants to paint feminists in a bad light.

but others’ silence is very instructive.

oh FFS we can’t possibly read and comment on every post that goes off on an tangent on a fast moving thread. I didn't notice the post you allude to so if it’s there I missed it.

For the record I personally support gay couples adopting as a general principle and have been supportive of a good friend and his DH doing so. That is not what this thread is about.

But you don’t get to demand what we should and shouldn’t comment on.

But you don’t get to demand what we should and shouldn’t comment on.

Indeed. I actually think the people ignoring PP are wiser than me. I won't be biting again.

THIS

Fix the problem for yourselves, stop demanding women accommodate you in our spaces

ill admit I am irritated by people claiming I said things without quoting me on this thread. Namely @donquixotedelamancha and @thedancingbear

as for “her other, less overtly prejudiced posts, in context”

Read ‘prejudice’ as ‘boundaries’.

I’ll hold my hands up - I make no exceptions, no ‘case by case basis’ for me. Humans can’t change sex and I am not interested in pretending anyone can or facilitating anyone else’s pretence.

With men, I know the statistics bear this out, they are 10 times more violent and 100 times more sexually violent than women. Two men double the risk, three men treble the risk, four men quadruple the risk and so on. Doesn’t matter if those men are mates, brothers, lovers, spouses. These stats, along with my own experiences and instincts bear this out. Furthermore I know, for a fact, no man can have a baby and that babies and children are bound to their mothers, stronger than any other human relationship, and have a hardwired bias towards women as a survival instinct. Facts are terribly prejudiced.

Is it ‘terrible’ to let those facts get in the way of ideology?

I'm the kid of a gay man, who was and still is an excellent parent. I've known many excellent gay parents of both sexes. YMMV, FWR isn't a group think tank, it can cope with a range of views even if disagreements happen.

I am all for kids having loving parents regardless of sexuality.

I am not for female people being excluded from female spaces to provide for unmet male needs, because tacitly male people are seen as more important and it doesn't matter so much what happens to females.

Call me whatever names for that you feel you need to.

The OP's husband could be a woman.

I'm not sure why you're quoting me. I agree with every word of your post. I was challenging the poster who was saying that gay men or trans women should not be allowed to have kids.