Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

If you want to run confidence courses for women about feeling confident in their own skin by stripping off in front of men, you're free to do that too btw.

As are other women to not attend and not feel in need of such lessons.

@scratchedbymycat completely agree.
I was really sad to read the final update from @bluepetergeneration but I completely understand why walking away felt like the only thing to do at that point. There was a lot of unnecessary vitriol that detracted from a shared desire to protect women's spaces.
Being comfortable in the nuances (that @bluepetergeneration raised so well) is what will take society forward as one and with the right balance.

Always an eye opener, isn't it?

Male person arrives, states needs, waits.

Another male person turns up to reproach the support humans for failing to drop everything, stop wasting time talking about their own lives and needs and issues on a women's forum, and fulfil their purpose of Supporting The Males.

The 'right balance' will not involve excluded females. Any excluded females.

Trust me on this.

There was a lot of unnecessary vitriol that detracted from a shared desire to protect women's spaces.
It's not a shared desire to protect women's spaces, it's a desire to let some men into them. This is an example of successful Forced Teaming.

It's wild to me that gender-critical people talk about trans people so much but still don't understand the difference between dysphoria and dysmorphia

Frankly, I don't care either way what it is it should not and should never have been used as a means to allow males to access female spaces, services, etc., or use the word woman in any shape or form to describe themselves.

Laughing that it's only us old fatties that mind random men seeing us undress.

OP has been abusing women's spaces and causing harm to women. After we pointed that out, Op basically said that they don't give a shit and they are more important than women despite the hollow 'I support women' at the start. You seem to think that we are unreasonable for finding the OPs behaviour unacceptable and stating so. OP was not posting in good faith

I think the OPs intention of promoting

“a shared desire to protect women’s spaces “

Could be written more truthfully as

“protecting a desire to share women’s spaces”

I only occasionally come onto the feminism board but I saw this and thought it was an interesting discussion. I often think these discussions would be better had on AIBU or something like that, to involve as many posters with differing points of view as possible in the discussion. Only it doesn't seem to be a discussion.

I also thought that people talking about "trans hate" were absolutely delusional - surely its not hate, its a need to protect women. But there does seem to be quite a lot of hateful comments on here, aimed at the OP who has left. So in a way, yes this has been interesting and has made me question my understanding but not in the way I was expecting.

A man who thinks he's a woman.
A woman who thinks she's a man.

This is the terminology Helen Joyce was using recently, and I think it is excellent.

I also thought that people talking about "trans hate" were absolutely delusional - surely its not hate, its a need to protect women. But there does seem to be quite a lot of hateful comments on here, aimed at the OP who has left.

Could you quote some of the hateful comments please? Because I've read the thread and didn't see any.

A man who thinks he's a woman.
A woman who thinks she's a man.

IIRC Julia Long suggested "men who want to force us to pretend that they're women".

Women saying 'no.thank you' is seen as hateful. Or 'vitriolic', even.

Doesn't matter if we phrase it ever so nicely or if we say it bluntly.

Women who say 'we don't accept men in womens spaces' are going to be scolded.

""There was a lot of unnecessary vitriol that detracted from a shared desire to protect women's spaces.""

The OP USES women's spaces.
They are male.

How is that a desire to protect women's spaces?

The moment even one single solitary male uses a women's space, that space is no longer single sex and becomes mixed sex.

Male bodied people using women's spaces in no way, shape, or form PROTECTS those spaces.
If they genuinely cared about women and wanted to protect their spaces they would use male spaces, be proud of their transness, expand the bandwith of what it means to be a feminine man, and help to broaden other males perceptions of males who identify as women (while acknowledging they can never actually BE women).
THAT would be "protecting women's spaces".

Not trampling all over them while at the same time declaring your "respect" for them.

2nd rule of misogyny: Women saying no to men is a hate crime.

It is instructive as to what most people think women are supposed to do and be, and how we're supposed to behave. Anything short of apologetic, fawning obeisance is seen as literal violence.

There was a lot of unnecessary vitriol that detracted from a shared desire to protect women's spaces.

There was no shared desire to protect women's spaces, the OP wants to be a special case able to use women's spaces as and when they desire, women to acquiesce to this and understand.

Being comfortable in the nuances (that @bluepetergeneration raised so well) is what will take society forward as one and with the right balance.

What nuances would they be? The nuances that say some, special men get a free pass to access women's spaces and services? On what criteria? Nuances like that are the problem, we need black and white absolutes, no fudging, no tinkering around the edges just keep it straightforward, simple, leave no room for doubt or misinterpretation - NO males whatsoever in women's spaces and services, none, not a one.

Have you tried turning yourself off and back on again?

It's more likely user error though!

A million times this.

I am not sure hateful comments is the phrase I would use. I think there are comments by increasingly frustrated and angry people who have at last realised that standing to one side, and being deferential and polite as our language , privacy and dignity are stolen, just means that even greater opportunities are taken to sublimate the position of women, our rights and our freedoms in society.

The most hateful comments on this subject I have seen / heard are the ones where threats are made to attack, rape and behead women, though not made on this forum thank goodness.

Anything short of apologetic, fawning obeisance is seen as literal violence.

One of the big culture shocks that happened while I was transitioning was when I was perceived as a male socially when I said no that was to be taken absolutely with no argument, but when the world around me started to perceive me as a female that all changed.

I can remember being outside of a nightclub once and turning a man down in front of his friends, but instead of just accepting it like he would have if I was male he decided to punch me in the face and call me a "fucking whore".

Men fear women laughing at them and saying no.

I wasn't aware they were looking for support exactly more telling us why they thought they were special and different and not like ‘those other trans people’ so they were planning to carrying on ignoring our boundaries and a lot of us said no instead of being pathetically grateful they were speaking to us.

What did I miss?

Is there any other type of man that needs a special introduction?