Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

Why should an opinion that doesn't align to the modern view on gender identity be allowed to remain. No one would accept splitting the population by race so why is sex okay? What about religion you could have toilets for separate religions. All toilets female toilets are single sex in effect, as you have a separate cubicles with one toilet in it. I'm sorry but a man seeing me putting on my lip stick or washing my hands isn't a threat. By going to mixed sex it is men who are being asked to give up urinals.

If you want to do it from a safety point of view what's to stop a predator sneaking into a current female toilet and waiting in a cubicle until only one girl remains? Surely it would actually be safer to have one toilet that is busier so is less likely to be empty.

Woman who are confident in their own skin are those who aren't that bothered about a man seeing them undressed or in underwear. It's no different to walking along the beach in a bikini or sunbathing topless which shock horror was normal in the 80s and 90s so we have actually gone backwards not forwards. I don't spend hours a week at the gym to hide behind my husband as someone might get turned on.

Personally speaking, I'm completely relaxed about men seeing me undressed or in underwear, particularly in certain contexts (I'd happily go naked in a mixed sauna, for example, or swim from and sit on a nudist beach; in these contexts it's just more convenient and less faff not to worry about clothes and that towel-wrestling thing when getting in and out of swimming gear.)

But that's ME. Not my many female friends who, for reasons of religion, culture, past issues and traumas, or just a desire for privacy, do not want to share spaces where they might be partially or fully unclothed with men. I have no truck with organised religion (of any stripe), but I would never say that a woman with religious faith was being unreasonable wanting a single-sex space for those reasons. What's feminist or progressive about that?

If you want to do it from a safety point of view what's to stop a predator sneaking into a current female toilet and waiting in a cubicle until only one girl remains? Nothing. But why does that mean we should make it easier for predatory men to just walk into women's loos unchallenged? Why give them MORE chances? Currently (or, sadly, I think I should say 'in the past'), there's a social norm/taboo whereby people know which loo they should use and feels uncomfortable if they go into the wrong one by mistake/do not go into the wrong one deliberately as they know the social pressure and likelihood of getting challenged exists. Erode that social pressure and it's a free-for-all.

I feel that if we are going to get to the root of everything that has been captured and shaped by activists, we need to trace back through every that has been strategically changed by them in a stepping-stone fashion.

‘Gender Identity Disorder’ was changed after lobbying into ‘gender dysphoria’ - even the word ‘disorder’ was removed.

I am even loathe to reify ‘gender’.

I think it should be ‘sexual identity disorder’ or ‘sexual body dysmorphic disorder’

No one would accept splitting the population by race so why is sex okay?

Or gender identity?

If you find single sex spaces offensive campaign to have them removed.

Lobby your MP to make all prisions, hospital wards, domestic violence refuges mixed sex, and see what your MP says to you. Because im pretty sure that those who have justify in public why women need space away from men, won't be as sure as you that they arent needed.

Dont ask rhetorically questions here, go out and work to have them remove, justify why you think girls should have to undress near men.

or

’transvestic fetishistic disorder’ [separate post to avoid deletion]

We need to stop using the language of ideological activists.

trace back through every thing* that has been strategically changed

I'd rather we had a system where an abuser (XX or XY) was beaten worse than what they did to their victim and second offence = death. We don't need to campaign, we live in an area where issues like this aren't a problem. An area of redevelopment has just been completed with new restaurants, bars and entertainments venues, they have largely all opted for mixed sex toilets ie cubicles off a long corridor. It seems to be working well and easier for the bouncers to police. I imagine considering the success of this from a drugs point of view most others will follow suit when renovating. I think the county lines issue trumps any gender issue.

The gym and pool we use also has one large family friendly changing room not separated by gender which is great.

Woman who are confident in their own skin are those who aren't that bothered about a man seeing them undressed or in underwear . . . . I don't spend hours a week at the gym to hide behind my husband as someone might get turned on.

I'm sufficiently confident in my own skin and the rest of my body that I don't feel the need to spend hours a week at the gym.

I prefer to keep my body clothed in front of strangers, I don't particularly want to have wash menstrual blood off my hands with a male bodied person standing beside me, and I have sufficient experience of harassment, intrusion and assault to want to keep women-only spaces male-free.

We don't need to campaign, we live in an area where issues like this aren't a problem
Oh, that's OK then, no need to worry about it eh

I think you mean 'unisex' loos, no? (loo, sink, bins, drier all in one lockable space for one person?). These are my preferred option too. Unfortunately in older buildings, like theatres, there often isn't the space; in these cases then single-sex is preferable – safer and better for privacy and dignity.

In your gym's family-friendly changing room, are there any separate facilities within it e.g. cubicles?

Why should an opinion that doesn't align to the modern view on gender identity be allowed to remain.

What is this 'modern' view on gender of which you speak?

How very authoritarian of you to demand that alternative opinions must not be allowed.

No one would accept splitting the population by race so why is sex okay?

I cannot believe this is a a serious question. You know why the population is split by sex, it's fucking obvious.

What about religion you could have toilets for separate religions.

Oh look a squirrel. Single sex toilets accommodate people of all religions.

All toilets female toilets are single sex in effect, as you have a separate cubicles with one toilet in it.

In a room with the washing facilities outside the cubicle.

I'm sorry but a man seeing me putting on my lip stick or washing my hands isn't a threat.

Well, massive hand clap for you - you're all right Jack fuck everyone else.

By going to mixed sex it is men who are being asked to give up urinals.

No they are not - third spaces would be additional to the separate male and female single sex toilets, are you really that lacking in comprehension that you do not understand the word 'third'?

If you want to do it from a safety point of view what's to stop a predator sneaking into a current female toilet and waiting in a cubicle until only one girl remains?

Ah, the old men are going to rape/assault you anyway so what's problem, let's just make it easier for them.

Surely it would actually be safer to have one toilet that is busier so is less likely to be empty.

No.

Woman who are confident in their own skin are those who aren't that bothered about a man seeing them undressed or in underwear.

Back to it's all women's fault because they are unconfident. Say that to those women who undressed in front of the rapist Adam Graham/Isla Bryson Iam sure they'll be delighted to hear that.

It's no different to walking along the beach in a bikini or sunbathing topless which shock horror was normal in the 80s and 90s so we have actually gone backwards not forwards.

A beach is not a toilet which is an enclosed space.

I don't spend hours a week at the gym to hide behind my husband as someone might get turned on.

Bully for you.

Woman who are confident in their own skin are those who aren't that bothered about a man seeing them undressed or in underwear.

This statement gives me the heeby jeebies.

The only people who would say this sort of thing would be people who are raised without proper boundaries and who are oblivious to abuse as a result. The sort that social services should intervene in.

I'd rather we had a system where an abuser (XX or XY) was beaten worse than what they did to their victim and second offence = death.

How very progressive of you.

I'd rather we had a system whereby abusers were not given extra opportunities to access their victims and abuse them in the first place.

Very thuggish

Woman who are confident in their own skin are those who aren't that bothered about a man seeing them undressed or in underwear . . . . I

You go campaigning to remove your clothes in front of strange men all you like, love. Fortunately you're representative of no-one but yourself.

It's the sort of statement said by people who are particularly intent on removing boundaries, imo.

@MarkWithaC they have tiny sinks and hand towels then a massive sink and seating area at the top of the line (it was all built by the same company) no mirrors in the cubicles. The cubicles are tiny so everyone seems to come out and congregate at the top to wash hands, fix hair etc. The smaller restaurants have the same set up without the sofas.

No one seems to use the the sinks in the toilets and I think the tactic is to not put hand towels in them so people get out faster. It would work in older buildings you would just have less of them, to me accommodating someone medical needs is more important than number or sharing a sink. I do think that law needs to change regarding sinks in the cubicles I would rather have more space. On an evening a bouncer is normally at the top which has stopped the less dignified behaviour that was previously going on and the new side to town is largely dignified with no real drugs presence. It would be interesting to legislate that going forward all renovated facilities have to be single floor to ceiling cubicles with shared sinks etc.

The changing room is a larger room with a few cubicles and then benches in front of lockers. It's kind of an unwritten rule that the cubicles are for families containing little kids from messing around and everyone else uses the middle as it's quicker especially if your going to gym and just changing your top layer. The gym doesn't have showers so people just go home after to change. Most people arrive with swimwear under their clothes so the cubicles are only used post swimming. Think they get away with it as technically it's a locker room.

I agree, but if the pp is a woman, it gives massive red flags about what they were raised to think was normal and expected. It sounds like the sort of thing women in the sex industry say before they come to their senses.

Yes. Search facility is enlightening.

scratchedbymycat

I also think the more trans people like the OP who speak up against the TRA agenda, the better for both women and genuine dysphorics.

But I fear this particular person will retreat deep into the shadows and silence after the anger in some of the posts. I don't see how that benefits women.

Yeah we’ve tried appeasing the occasional trans person that speaks up against the TRA agenda and that has just lead to them getting to speak for women. Look at Debbie Hayton who gets a whole new career as an expert in the media whilst simultaneously writing trans policy for schools that massively favours trans people over women.

And women still don't get to speak for themselves.

I thought as you did many years ago now I realise how naive I was and I’ll let my anger show as appeasement achieved nothing.

No one seems to use the the sinks in the toilets and I think the tactic is to not put hand towels in them so people get out faster.

Nice.

Regarding shared sink areas, follow this link to twitter.com/RubySampson18/status/1627365418321977347

Also relevant to the hand-drying discussion.

yy MenopausalMe.

And props to TinselAngel, because I think her consistent efforts to remind us that our sympathies, solidarity and welcome should remain always with the people gaslighted around the trans identified individual, rather than the individual themselves. Our sympathies should lie with the child who is gaslighted into calling their dad mum, not the dad.

Also, beyond arguing perhaps, that JK Rowling isn’t evil (i think that was what was implied) - what is OP actually doing or saying to really support us, apart from ‘I know I haven’t literally changed sex’? Small crumbs, like DH. No thank you.

I remember DH even saying on a programme that women should be allowed to define our own boundaries, it gave me a minute’s hope and then disappointment about my own gullibility when that was not matched in any way by any commitment to respect our boundaries or retract from those guidelines he wrote.

Urgh

No one would accept splitting the population by race so why is sex okay? What about religion you could have toilets for separate religions. All toilets female toilets are single sex in effect, as you have a separate cubicles with one toilet in it.

It's ok because men and women have different needs when using the toilet. Men can urinate standing up, they don't have periods to deal with etc..