Trans and losing my mind...

[bluepetergeneration]

Posting here in good faith. And I'll leave that at that.

I'm a TS. I was born male. I don't normally post on mumsnet but I started using it as I have a 1 year old DD. I won't tell my whole life story, that would be self indulgent, so I'll just say what I came here to say.

I'm sick to death of my community. I'm sick of the misogyny. I'm under no illusion that I'm a woman or ever will be. I transitioned when I was very young so I pass, but I still now only use female bathrooms when there's no other option (such as a disabled bathroom- I would feel unsafe in the mens). What I have is a disorder- it was crippling- and now I live my life so that I can actually enjoy it and not feel 'wrong'.

The idea of self-ID sickens me, and I'm tired of having to have the same conversations over and over again with other trans people who accuse me of being some kind of self hating transsexual just because I care about the safety of women. I also care about the safety of my kid. Partly because I'm worried she'll be in danger because I'm trans, and also because I don't want her to get caught up in all these weird messages that being trans isn't a disorder around dysphoria (which it is).

I guess I'm posting this to say that in this fight, trans people with genuine dysphoria who aren't delusional will be standing right beside you.

Also a plea to not paint all of us with the same brush. You can fight for the rights of trans people (like me, I should be able to present female and not get attacked, and when I was in my late teens and still looked a bit male I did get attacked) and also be gender critical

Some paragraphs relevant to one of the conversations we've been having, about the devaluation of women as mothers.

The National Organization for Women (NOW) bills itself as an “intersectional, multi-issue, multi-strategy organization that takes a holistic approach to women’s rights.” Part of their purported aim is to fight “discrimination based on sexual orientation or gender identity in all areas, including employment, housing, health services, and child custody,” and one of their six core “issues” is “LGBTQ+ Rights.”

Gallmeier, who identifies as a pansexual transgender “demigirl,” has been serving as a board member for the North Carolina chapter of NOW since 2019, a group which is currently lobbying against a bill designed to keep parents informed about what schools are teaching their kids. Gallmeier, NOW’s LGBTQ+ Outreach Coordinator, is also known by the name Jenny-Jaymes Gunn.

(continues)

In 2021, Gallmeier was also invited by Wedgewood Community Church “to give a half hour long sermon about the redundancies of gender” on Mother’s day.

“One of my contentions is that many of our labels or terms of endearment, like ‘mother,’ build walls instead of bridges,” Gallmeier said during his sermon. He went on to compare the word ‘mother’ to forms of racism, and added that the word “serves no purpose in the 21st century.”

Reduxx

Third spaces would be gender neutral and open to all of both sexes as wanted. Everyone would have a choice of sex based space and a space in which sex is irrelevant.

If men misuse and abuse the gender neutral space then that's going to have to be dealt with. In the future. If it happens.

The current problem is that when men try to use the female only spaces as an alternative to their problems in the men's spaces, it excludes females, harms females and bounces females out of having anything so that men can have more helpful and supportive choice out of everything.

That's the bit that's not ok.

Third spaces incidentally would not be TQ+ only spaces for multiple reasons. Many women hurry to post on MN about how they would love to share spaces with male people and freely undress in front of them, they will be very happy to use gender neutral third spaces. Parents with opposite sex children would find gender neutral facilities easier and more inclusive. Parents of adult children with learning difficulties would often prefer gender neutral facilities where they can accompany their child, or where their child is in a mixed sex space for safety.

This means the spaces are actively inclusive, are not in any way 'outing' for TQ+ people to use since many people will happily use them, and prevents the whole men gatecrashing spaces for jollies thing. And means female people needing female only space, get an accessible facility too.

I'm for third spaces.
Third spaces return autonomy and choice to females. They can choose if they want to use the female space, or the third space. It seems the best solution all around to me.
Asking a question about third spaces doesn't make me against third spaces.

What I am doing is questioning some of the rationales. Let me put my third space question from my post above a different way. If men identify as not threatening, do trans women still have the right to percieve the men as a possible threat? If all the scary men from the men's toilet's choose to use the third space toilet are they still scary or did they become magically not a threat by identifying as such.

It's sort of me holding up a mirror to self identification, and the problems self identification brings. It's putting trans women in the same spot that they have already put women in. I want to see if their logic and reasoning remains consistent, or if it changes when the tables are changed.

I hope this helps.

sighs OK, you're a nice guy. You're on our side. You're just one of the girls. We get it.

No thank you.

I daren’t click on the link otherwise my head will explode.

Many women hurry to post on MN about how they would love to share spaces with male people and freely undress in front of them, they will be very happy to use gender neutral third spaces.

Indeed, I've seen women say they would prefer to share spaces and freely undress with male people than with "terfs". These third spaces will be ideal; finally female trans activists and allies will be able to avoid women who hold the wrong opinions!

Yes. Genuine answer.

There is rather a lot about Gallmeier's penchant for BDSM photos on social media and interests in talking to children about same. I would recommend only clicking after you've donned a protective helmet.

I have seen the TQ+ lobby response of 'I don't want third spaces cos there'll be scary men in them'.

To which female people tend to respond with a long, hard, stare.

Anyway, I thought we'd been told all the answers, how do they go....?

oh yes. NAMALT! They just want to pee. And you shouldn't be looking. They know the right space for them, its none of your business. You can self exclude if you want to be silly about it. And if you get raped you can always call a policeman.

Hang on, ignore the second bit. I was mixing this article up with another article about a fetishist who approached children. There is no evidence that this one has! Gullmeier is innocent of this charge!

Not innocent of sharing images of pregnant women in fetish gear though.

As a PP stated, third spaces are for everyone, not just the TQ group.

If they don't work because of bad behaviour by a particular demographic, that would presumably be dealt with if it happens.

Nor can I. The last one managed several pages of such posts, and called us shrill. Standards have dropped!

Maybe it's lingering post-Christmas lethargy.

I just clicked. This guy. He reminds me of the pp saying insisting that a child is no worse off without a mother. There are some seriously twisted individuals in the TA movement.

Agreed. I don't think I explained myself fully.
In the vast, overwhelming majority of cases (hence the now very high numbers of detransitioners), I suspect most people with gender dysphoria would be helped by being given therapy to understand their body. For example, the large number of teenage girls with ROGD who also have autism may be struggling with change (autism and sensory related) rather than being "genuinely transgender". There will be lots of other explanations behind other co-morbities I should imagine.

Also, totally agree with the anorexia analogy for the majority of cases. The idea of enabling someone to stay as thin as possible would be shocking.

However, I think where it differs from anorexia is that there will be a small number of people for whom transition is right. It sounds like the OP may be in that category, similar to the two people on the video clip that I posted (who also say it's a mental illness).

there will be a small number of people for whom transition is right

What does that mean?

What is ‘transition’?

Does that mean for all purposes they are treated as the opposite sex? Does that mean that it is right from them to use all provision for the opposite sex where they don’t want to be inconvenienced by using their own?

I don’t think living a lie is a good idea for anyone and I’m sure there are some anorexics who manage to find a ‘happy underweight’ they can live with.

@EndlessTea (apologies I can't grab the message to reply for some reason)

"Transition" means like the OP. I should probably have said "live as a transexual person". Hopefully without any hormones or surgery - that should be the last resort of the last resort I would hope.

And no, anyone should either use spaces that are for their own biological sex or single occupancy third spaces as per my previous comments.

For the vast majority of people who suffer gender dysphoria, living as the opposite will not be the right answer. Unfortunately it's seen as the go-to under the affirmation model and as per the findings of the Cass Review, children with gender incongruence are being treated as if they have gender dysphoria.

My summary would be:

1. End puberty blockers and hormone therapy for all children
2. Spend time with anyone presenting with gender incongruence or dysphoria to unpick why (and hopefully treat through talking therapy, but if all this fails consider "transition" for adults as a final option)
3. create access to single occupancy third spaces for anyone who feels that they can not use single sex communal area that is commensurate with their biological sex
4. link all single sex institutions to birth sex only (and repeal GRA to stop legal change of sex on birth certificate)

All this is only unlocked if gender dysphoria is considered as a mental illness.

All this is only unlocked if gender dysphoria is considered as a mental illness.

I am not convinced the name ‘gender dysphoria’ is helpful.

In my opinion, it is an identity disorder combined, in some cases, with body dysmorphia and has a dysfunctional psychosexual component.

I don’t think we should be reifying it or dignifying it with its own name.

It seems to be co-morbid with personality disorders.

The reason i don’t think it should have its own name and be considered a special category of disorder, is because it paves the way for ‘special treatments’ which are offered/suggested for no other mental illness and which unfairly impact others.

The problem with you going into the ladies is that you are setting a criteria.
If a man is
(1) 57 years old and
(2) has been on hormones for 15 years and
(3) dresses as a stereotypical woman
then it's fine for said man (you) to be in women's spaces.

What about if he is 56?
Been on hormones for 14 years?
Is that still ok?

For you the criteria is YOU. For another bloke the criteria is them.

What gives you the right to decide which blokes are fine in the ladies toilets?

We have to say NO MEN ALLOWED IN WOMEN'S SPACES.

Every time you exercise your choice to enter the ladies toilets, you are potentially excluding a woman from a facility that is rightfully hers.
Do what women do and live by the toilet leash or go in the Gents. And campaign for mixed sex toilets in addition to single sex ones.

I think the motive driving the trans engine for girls is the porn-fueled sadistic way you will be treated by boys and men once you are seen as sexually mature
Sex-positive feminism has been utterly harmful.
Growing up in the 60s and 70s women expected to find sex pleasurable and men to pleasure them. How Radical!

It's incumbent upon adult women to band together and reject and scorn porn-usage and the men and boys that consume it. We have a current grass roots feminist movement now; this needs to be part of it if we want to save and nurture young girls

It's not so much that it has its own name, its the idea that its being separate out from other disorders in law, and its allowed to, at best, confuse the definition of sex, female, woman, girl.

Keep it as medical diagnosis and treatment and don't let it interfere with anyone elses rights. I shouldnt be under any pressure to say that men are women and lose the right to have spaces away from men.

Policians were wrong to assume that a small subset of men will have little negative effects on women.

This sums it up very well. I have huge sympathy and compassion for the OP, @bluepetergeneration

I also think the more trans people like the OP who speak up against the TRA agenda, the better for both women and genuine dysphorics.

But I fear this particular person will retreat deep into the shadows and silence after the anger in some of the posts. I don't see how that benefits women.

Also ... the OP has a daughter, and is probably fearing for her future. The OPs daughter also needed us - those who live her experiences- to help out.

I know I'm going to get totally flamed for this, but if you are not a women, you just don't get it. It needs to be explained carefully and possibly patiently. I'm not sure if men will ever get it, but we need them to to a certain degree because Rosie Duffield can't fix this by herself.

I'm not 'being kind', I'm being pragmatic.