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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

One third of pupils kept home on "rainbow day" at Canadian school

280 replies

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 13:14

Yikes.

I guess there's more disquiet about this stuff in Canada than is reported.

lfpress.com/news/local-news/rainbow-day-why-did-one-third-of-kids-at-one-london-school-stay-home

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Trivium4all · 17/02/2023 18:56

Couple of things to add, hopefully to help clarify and provide context, as a Canadian who lived not so far away from where that school is:

First, I got the impression from the article that the "Rainbow Day" wasn't about anything specifically to do with sexuality or gender or sex, but about diversity in general: the students were asked to wear shirts in their favourite colours (as a PP pointed out, shirts in various colours are trotted out for all sorts of occasions, so on this occasion, they wanted all the shirts together, I guess). The undertone I read in the article is, "Oh dear, some in the Muslim community appear to have thought that we meant the Pride rainbow. We should have communicated better," alongside considerable discomfort that perhaps this means that not everyone in that community approves of Pride...when surely all nice people everywhere agree about every "progressive" point... (as other PPs have pointed out). (N.B. I really don't like the term "X community", as it assumes a monolith that rarely exists.)

Second, while I take the point that being singled out for a characteristic, even in ostensible celebration, can have the opposite effect to making someone feel included (I speak from personal experience), there is a long tradition of speaking about Canada as a "cultural mosaic" (as opposed to the American "cultural melting pot"), and of holding festivals and celebratory days for just about any heritage or characteristic one could think of. The idea seems to be that by learning about each other's differences, one will learn to be appreciative and not fearful (the problem with this, of course, is that this model doesn't account for what happens when features of two cultures are mutually incompatible). Specifically, London (Canada) is a fairly large city that used to have a multicultural festival involving many of the various cultural heritage centres in the city putting on food, clothing, music, art etc. displays, and everyone travelled around eating each other's food and collecting stamps in a "passport" for the day. Many current teachers, and the parents of many children, will have taken part in this festival. Of course by itself it didn't resolve culture clashes, but it is still fondly remembered. So in this context, wanting to celebrate diversity by naïvely highlighting differences and saying "but that's ok" is at least consistent with specific local practice.

Third, the area within which this school is, is the more socioeconomically deprived region of the city (and is where many of the Syrian refugees have settled), and there was a huge case in the news last year in which a Muslim family was murdered in this city (although in a different area). It was the first mass killing ever in the city, and as I understand it, feelings around Islamophobia are still very raw. The uncomfortable undercurrent of the article will have something to do with that as well, and with the self-image of the generous kind welcoming Canadian not always being reflected in the reality of the situation.

And fourth, about the "New Canadians" thing: basically, if you're not Indigenous, you're a "New Canadian", even if your ancestors came over in the 16th century. So it's not an insult. In fact, the article seemed to be falling over itself wanting to make clear that the Syrian refugees were now considered Canadian, which is why it gets tangled in knots differentiating among really brand-new, formerly-Syrian-refugee-New-Canadians, and also-of-Middle-Eastern-heritage-but-second-or-third-generation-New Canadians. As another PP has said, asking where someone is from is not a loaded question in Canada like it can be here (at least not in an urban context in Ontario), because basically the assumption is that everyone is an immigrant at some point, and talking about when/from whence one's family arrived in Canada is a perfectly normal conversation starter in many situations.

OneLongSmorgasbord · 17/02/2023 18:59

I've said for a long time that "acceptance without exception" in relation to trans ideology is going to have big repercussions for the LGB community.

But it's no longer enough to educate kids that some people have 2 mummies or 2 daddies, it's now

That's just the first 3 examples off the top of my head. There are lots more. None of those are OK and I'm surprised more people inside of the rainbow community can't see just how bad they look to those outside it.

When parents are reading about these things, why would they trust schools anymore?

When there is literally any problem that is related to someone trans or queer or whatever, it's hidden, explained away, and ignored. People get called bigots for highlighting the above things.

I think more LGB people need to realise that they are going to catch the backlash and start speaking up that maybe it's a bad idea to invite drag queens into schools, or at least doing cursory social media searches on the people they do invite in, that young children don't need to learn about sex toys, that teachers do not have the right to indoctrinate kids into their views in any way. Kids go to school to learn English, maths and science, not to talk about sex games with the teacher.
The more this inappropriateness is pushed from one side, the more it's going to get pushback from the other. I only hope it doesn't take down the whole of the LGB community with it.

Baaaaaa · 17/02/2023 19:01

Blister · 17/02/2023 14:43

These "special" days wind me up. My daughter's school started black history month. And she's been told she's a slave and her predecessors were at the back of the bus. No dear, yours are called queen amina and they led armies to battle and never saw a fecking bus. She was the kid in school and now she's the black kid in school. There's a better way of making minority kids comfortable in school than singling them out. Including lgb kids.

This with bloody knobs on.

Josette77 · 17/02/2023 19:04

I thimk people here are not seeing this through Canadian eyes. We celebrate all individual things here. We are a very unique country.

BashirWithTheGoodBeard · 17/02/2023 19:07

I've said for a long time that "acceptance without exception" in relation to trans ideology is going to have big repercussions for the LGB community.

I worry about this too.

StephanieSuperpowers · 17/02/2023 19:07

Hmmm...does this mean that we are minsinterpreting Booby McTeacher and are not interpreting it Canadianilly enough to understand the special nuance around his in school fetsh gear?

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 19:21

Josette77 · 17/02/2023 19:04

I thimk people here are not seeing this through Canadian eyes. We celebrate all individual things here. We are a very unique country.

Well it seems like a third of the "new Canadians" at that school don't see it like you either.

How are you going to solve that?

It seems there's a trust issue between the school and the parents.

There are indications they have gone too far with things e.g. the image of two girls in hijab kissing.

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ComfortablyDazed · 17/02/2023 19:22

Josette77 · 17/02/2023 19:04

I thimk people here are not seeing this through Canadian eyes. We celebrate all individual things here. We are a very unique country.

Well, apparently you don’t, if a third of pupils were kept off school.

‘Unique’ is binary, by the way. Something is either unique or it isn’t. It can’t be ‘very’ unique.

Tinner01 · 17/02/2023 19:29

nilsmousehammer · 17/02/2023 17:41

I think you'll find it's negative generalisations of homophobia against entire populations, and this one will likely be shortly deleted too as against guidelines.

Yup deleted. MNHQ clearly puts certain groups above others

Tinner01 · 17/02/2023 19:31

I am really scared of this new world, where the beliefs of a minority are prioritised above the real lives of many. Us gays, lesbians and women are going to see our rights eroded as western governments cave to this pressure, for fear of upsetting the countries they are chained to and the growing groups of angry oeople.

mach2 · 17/02/2023 19:40

These "special" days wind me up. My daughter's school started black history month. And she's been told she's a slave and her predecessors were at the back of the bus. No dear, yours are called queen amina and they led armies to battle and never saw a fecking bus. She was the kid in school and now she's the black kid in school. There's a better way of making minority kids comfortable in school than singling them out. Including lgb kids.

A friend's partner joined the police and had to take part in Race Awareness Training. It pretty much consisted of inducing the participants they were racist and had the opposite effect to what was (allegedly) intended. The one black cadet said "Fuck me - if I didn't know I was black before, I do now"

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 19:40

Tinner01 · 17/02/2023 19:31

I am really scared of this new world, where the beliefs of a minority are prioritised above the real lives of many. Us gays, lesbians and women are going to see our rights eroded as western governments cave to this pressure, for fear of upsetting the countries they are chained to and the growing groups of angry oeople.

So people like you need to stand up and say that things like rainbow dildo butt monkey and diaper fetishists are not suitable for children. And stop smearing parents that are horrified as transphobic or homophobic.

Otherwise that's what people are going to associate your community with.

YOU need to stamp it out before permanent damage is done.

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nilsmousehammer · 17/02/2023 19:42

We're doing our best with that, thank you.

See the death and rape threats at us for doing so, but we keep on saying it. And getting tossed out of Pride and harassed on MN, and carrying on anyway. The LGBAlliance is also doing its best.

nilsmousehammer · 17/02/2023 19:46

Tinner01 · 17/02/2023 19:29

Yup deleted. MNHQ clearly puts certain groups above others

No, negative generalisations against entire populations was how you broke guidelines. It doesn't matter who or what population is referred to, that's the part that HQ will delete.

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 19:54

nilsmousehammer · 17/02/2023 19:42

We're doing our best with that, thank you.

See the death and rape threats at us for doing so, but we keep on saying it. And getting tossed out of Pride and harassed on MN, and carrying on anyway. The LGBAlliance is also doing its best.

Thanks
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Tinner01 · 17/02/2023 20:15

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 19:40

So people like you need to stand up and say that things like rainbow dildo butt monkey and diaper fetishists are not suitable for children. And stop smearing parents that are horrified as transphobic or homophobic.

Otherwise that's what people are going to associate your community with.

YOU need to stamp it out before permanent damage is done.

Oh I agree entirely. Those people are nothing to do with me and the vast majority of homosexuals and bisexuals

Tinner01 · 17/02/2023 20:16

nilsmousehammer · 17/02/2023 19:46

No, negative generalisations against entire populations was how you broke guidelines. It doesn't matter who or what population is referred to, that's the part that HQ will delete.

It’s not a generalisation it’s the proud belief of that group

CorvusPurpureus · 17/02/2023 20:19

Roseey · 17/02/2023 18:05

DS is bisexual and hates the LGBetc stuff at school. He feels it makes it a "thing", as though it's an abnormality.

He's just normal. He doesn't want to talk about his sexual preferences at school. He has no interest whatsoever in bloody rainbows.

Same here. Dd2 fancies girls. Not boys who call themselves girls.

She is attracted to other girls.

& whilst her lovely friendship group are very gung ho with the 'yeah so corvusdd2's a lesbian, Adam's gay, Parvinder's a bit bi but not sure, oh & Travis isn't a gay transboy anymore, he's a they & they are dating Victoria who is now a straight girl, despite the fact that everyone has known Victor since year 3'...

...the cracks are starting to show.

Dd2 hangs out a lot with a nice friend, 'Adam'.

So, say some of her year group, dd2 might like to consider that she's trans, because then she & lovely Adam would be a lovely gay couple, right?

Dd2: well, no. I don't fancy Adam because he's a boy & I like girls. Plus he doesn't fancy me because I'm a girl & he likes boys. Simple, no? Adam & I are both gay. So we are not attracted to each other.

Y10: but you are so cute together!

Dd2: my cat's cute. I am not dating my cat, or bloody Adam.

As far as dd2 is concerned, all things 'lgbtquia+' can take a jump off the pier.

She'd like a girlfriend someday, & she will be navigating that VERY much outwith of all things rainbow-y & Stonewall associated.

hangonsnoopy · 17/02/2023 20:21

We don't know what Canadian Muslims think.

We don't know if this is about gender identity, homosexuality, oversexualised ideas, politics or anything else.

Because people have been strongly discouraged from giving their opinions, so now we have no idea what people in general think or what they want.

It is a huge problem when schools and parents should be working in partnership but parents no longer trust schools.

Aquamarine1029 · 17/02/2023 20:22

IWineAndDontDine · 17/02/2023 14:15

Because, believe it or not, there will be members of the LGBT community at these schools, and we would rather they not feel like they are abnormal

How does not having a "rainbow day" make them feel abnormal?

suggestionsplease1 · 17/02/2023 20:48

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 18:48

*Rainbowshit
It's part of an ongoing conversation about discomfort with what is being taught to our children about sex, sexuality and gender ideology.

There are numerous examples of inappropriate content and parents not being told what is being taught to their children.

What's happening is harmful in lots of ways and is not resulting in inclusion but harming LGBT acceptance.

Welcome to the creeping extension of transphobia to phobia for other minority groups.

Does this in any way surprise you?*

It's the same thought processes and rationale. Tacit sanctioning of transphobia is emboldening those who harbour similar attitudes towards other groups and who are seeking to normalise their attitudes in society.

And thank you for demonstrating part of the problem.

Not wanting children to be taught scientific untruths such as you can choose your sex is not transphobia.

Not wanting your children to roll a dice and select an orifice and a body part to insert is not homophobia.

Objecting to rainbow dildo butt monkey is not bigotry.

By smearing reasonable concerns as such you just add to the problem.

You must be out of touch with contemporary science if you think that the majority of present day academics and researchers consider sex to be binary.

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 20:50

@suggestionsplease1 🙈🙈

You must be new here.

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suggestionsplease1 · 17/02/2023 20:51

Rainbowshit · 17/02/2023 20:50

@suggestionsplease1 🙈🙈

You must be new here.

Haha, not at all, what do you mean by that?

Helleofabore · 17/02/2023 20:55

You must be out of touch with contemporary science if you think that the majority of present day academics and researchers consider sex to be binary.

It really is predictable and cyclical.

Please post this evidence here on this thread. Because well, no, I would think you are indulging in a wonderful over exaggeration and misinformation.

I am sure I am not the only one that am looking forward to it. It has never once been posted yet. And if it is ‘the majority’… well posting something will be very simple.

OneLongSmorgasbord · 17/02/2023 20:58

God, are people still pretending that sex isn't binary?
Let me guess, that Nature article is about to be deployed in 3...2...1...