Re: Starmer

[EpicChaos]

I hope that starmer, having possibly wetted his finger and stuck it in the air to see which way the wind is blowing,following Sturgeons resignation, doesn't think, that if he starts to be a bit GC, that women will be keen to vote for him!
The man has already planted his flag and just like Sturgeon, he chose to plant it on the north face of the Eiger. More fool him! imo.

I've already seen the colours that he wears and they aren't green, purple and white!
Women don't owe him a damned thing!

Luciana Berger and Frank Field come to mind specifically on anti semitism. You know this.

Margaret Hodge and Ruth Smeeth have talked about the vile abuse they got too. They stuck it out, but Hodge talked very recently about how she's a secular Jew - doesn't practice Judaism at all - but that was irrelevant. Just being a Jew made her a target. She went from getting no abuse to thousands of emails / tweets targeting her with anti-Semitic abuse. All when Corbyn became leader.

There were a bunch who left en masse (Chuka etc) also citing bullying and anti semitism, but Brexit toxicity in Labour might have had a lot to do with them going too.

I saw a sudden influx of anti-Semitic crap in my own Twitter feed. I learned tropes I didn't even know existed. And now it's gone.

It's not a good look denying what went on. I don't know why you'd do that.

It's not a good look denying what went on. I don't know why you'd do that.

You see the problem is I CAN'T deny "statements" like "I saw a sudden influx of anti-Semitic crap in my Tritter feed". They're undeniable, because they're not based on any verifiable evidence. Like pretty much the entire sorry saga.

Margaret Hodge put in 200 complaints to the Labour party abour instances of antisemitism and then went public complaining about the lack of results. On further investigation, it was established that only 20 of those concerned Labour members. 😀 Apparently it was Jeremy Corbyn's responsibility to deal with EVERYBODY'S antisemitism! So pretty much like the Luciana Berger thing you're on about here.

Luciana Berger and Frank Field come to mind specifically on anti semitism. You know this.

You seem to have a real problem following a train of thought from one post to another. Let me recap:

A claim was made that Corbyn didn't expel Labour members, the way Starmer has done. You countered with a load of absolute bullshit that the members who had to hire bodyguards and install panic buttons because of him were effectively forced out. You gave Luciana Berger as an example.

When I pointed out that all the people convicted of antisemitic acts against Berger were not Labour members, most of them being known neo-nazis, and anyway none of what happened to her is evidence of a widespread problem causing MEMBERS to need bodyguards and panic buttons, you said you were talking about politicians (thus a complete non sequiter from the original question).

So, OK. The next installment: Apparently now Frank Field also needed to hire bodyguards and install panic buttons, until he was finally forced out in fear for his life, did he? Quite a scoop you've got there, considering he never even said anything to that effect himself.

You see, I never actually asked you to provide a list (of two) of "politicians who resigned from the Labout party under Corbyn because they didn't like him". But you don't seem to recognise the difference between people leaving because of the impact of bullying and antisemitism towards them (your original claim) and people leaving claiming the existence of bullying and antisemitism towards others as a reason why (like Field, or Chuka).

Most of the parliamentary party were not on board with Corbyn's project and a good number of them were willing to stoop to any lengths to destroy it, including colluding with a media-led frenzy about antisemitism consisting almost entirely of the kind of supposition, implication, hearsay, unproven or unprovable claims and outright lies that you've parrotted here, and that keep falling to pieces at the slightest examination. It's not like their opposition to him on ideological grounds was any kind of secret.

So please don't accuse me of denial until you have something meaningful that can actually be confirmed or denied (and the capacity to remember it from one post to the next). Hint: "Somebody who had a vested interest in doing so said lots of people were nasty to them, and some of them may even have been Labour members so it's definitely Jeremy Corbyn's fault" ain't it.

Shameful denial of the truth. The EHRC found a very different picture to the one you paint.

Can we please leave this, or someone start a thread on the subject of Corbyn?

This. Honestly, shame on you @scaredoff .

Totally agree. In a parallel universe I can just imagine all the TRA apologists swearing blind the Labour elite had zero responsibility for the bullying Rosie Duffield experiences, OR because that it came from non-Labour members it wasn't a Labour problem.

It’s very similar. They are now deep in another issue - gender lies.

I can’t see Starmer doing another clamp down after the antisemitism one so Labour stuck with believers

It's certainly interesting to see a real time demonstration of the parallels between the two.

100% this. Sickening really.

I wrote to Starmer after Russell-Moyle, pointing out that the exact similarity and suggesting that it was possibly the same characters in the party moving into the next 'cause' bringing with them their 'justified passion' (Russell-Moyle described it as something like that) and inflaming supporters and followers on social media. Every time I see a tweet from OJ I am reminded of the way he also swept away allegations of anti-semitism wrt Corbyn. Vile little trouble making toad.

I did say to Starmer that with the anti-semitism issue, all Labours denials and claims that it wasn't a Labour problem, or was media propaganda, was measured by me against the simple fact I'd never seen or read such vile hate towards Jewish people in my Twitter feed as I did while Corbyn was leader.

I literally did not vote for Labour because of the 'What would you have done if you were an ordinary citizen in pre-WW2 Germany? question. I hope I wouldn't have voted for a party that had as its backdrop, rising hatred towards Jewish people.

And, I went on to comment that the claim that 'Labour won't tolerate misogyny' means nothing to me in the face of a Twitter feed with rampant spiralling misogyny and Labour MPs who don't feel safe or supported in their own party.

It can be fixed. He did it. I think he could do it again, but the biggest hurdle is to recognise that it is a problem that exists. The fact he made no comment about Russel-Moyle bothers the hell out of me.

And yes, maybe he doesn't read the letters. But I'm going to keep trying, and keep sending them hardcopy, recorded delivery.

I want Starmer to be really clear on his gender politics views with actual policy commitments made on the record so I can decide, i want ALL politicians from all parties to do this and I want to see hustings to hold all these politicians seeking election to their views and their policy commitments.
I have always voted Labour before and while they don’t have a monopoly on left wing thinking I need and want a party to vote for, now, I can’t wait for a decent political party to form. So this isn’t my only issue for deciding who to give my vote to (the health of the economy and public services and housing, climate and the environment and trying to narrow the economic inequality gap also figure) but it’s high up the list.

I feel exactly the same way.

ScratchedbyMyCat I really like what you’re doing with this and will consider doing the same. Anti democratic shite is spouted on this board with tedious regularity by Tory posters including ‘MPs don’t get to read it’ if you write to them. Emails can also be copied into a handful of relevant people at the same time (Minister in charge of that issue etc) if people are ever worried about writing to an MP and their email not being passed on..

I'm considering starting a thread called 'My letters to Starmer', and posting them there. But I'll tell him I'm doing that. Maybe the Daily Mail will find them come election time.

I haven’t seen this tbh

And I have written to my MPs a few times and had responses

Generic and not helpful in other ways as the opposition but it was received

@Slothtoes Please join me. Maybe one letter doesn't get read, but five from different women at regular intervals might. Im going to try send one every two tweets, touching on whatever has happened in between. I'm not sending emails. I feel a postage stamp and recorded delivery feels more 'intentional', if that makes sense. My next letter will reference Nicola Sturgeons resignation, and the butcher from Melrose. I think he needs to be warned that KJK will be forcing this into the open in his constituency too.

Generic and not helpful in other ways as the opposition but it was received

I do get responses to enough of my emails to let me know they have been read. My Tory MP, a rare breed in Scotland, replied personally and often wryly because of the fury I expressed.

'My letters to Starmer', imo, would be a great thread. Perhaps it could be on the wider MN?

X-post Scratched
I feel now is time for practical politics and collaboration and all the rest of it and that the Left insisting on ideological perfection is a total fucking waste of time.

That impossible quest for idealogical purity is something that you’d never catch the Tories wasting a single second of their time and energy on worrying about. The Tories’ flexibility and resolve to win power gives them latitude to appeal widely to a spectrum of electorate and it gives them plenty of opportunity to try pragmatic position changing in government within limits. All things that the left could be doing. But I fear Labour still sees itself as not the natural party of government, whereas entitled Tories have that view baked into their DNA. They couldnt give a shit what some self appointed mouthpiece figure says on social media.

And because I feel like this I see the current outbreak of GC infighting commented on on this board as a useless distraction from women getting on with influencing policy via the courts and Parliament. It makes ‘us’ look incoherent and unorganised to those who do hold the power in those settings. Many of who we have yet to convince to find a backbone.

I'm not massively au fait with Mumsnet, where do you think they'd get most engagement? The Politics forum seems a lot quieter than here from my brief ventures.

I am in a very safe Tory seat and interestingly my MP completely 'gets' the gender stuff and is clear on his commitment to keeping women and children safe. He makes a great deal of sense. I email him reasonably often. The Labour bloke told me that it would be 'cruel' to make a TW go in to a men's loo. I do not bother to contact him now and feel the same about Starmer.

Agree. In truly despotic states, your political priorities start to get ranked. For example, it might bother the hell out of you that you get beaten if you support the wrong party, but it doesn't bother you as much as not being able to feed your children.

I do feel the UK should consider that. Gender is one of my top priorities, but it really wouldn't be if I couldn't feed my children. So I will vote with those thoughts in mind, but still do what I can to get gender issues flagged.

I wouldn't let that drop. I'd be emailing the Labour guy and asking him if he thinks it is acceptable to women if Isla Bryson uses female toilets on release? If not, why isn't he trying to find a solution to both instead of throwing women and girls under the bus.

This would be great. We could all post the letters we have sent and the responses we have received.

@scratchedbymycat tbh, I spend most of my time on FWR (except for that one disastrous excursion on Style & Beauty <shudder>) and Gardening. AIBU seems to get most engagement, but perhaps not the best fit without a degree of shoehorning. Chat perhaps? It might sink without a trace but it's worth a punt. I suspect lots of posters will have questions for him. Although it's not in the bag yet, he's odds on to be our next PM.

It can't be too overtly GC or MN might move it here anyway.

Full disclosure, I'd like to see a few FWR-ish threads on the other boards because I can use them to amplify the Equality Act petition.