Tavistock scandal ‘on a par with East German doping of athletes’ - top of Times home page tonight

[Fenlandia]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e04f4958-aa26-11ed-8a03-b2faadede0c5?shareToken=81bddfc85342137edc81797069ccd8cb

Dr Taylor wrote in 2005 that staff didn’t agree among themselves about what they were seeing in their patients: “were they treating children distressed because they were trans,” Barnes writes in Time to Think, “or children who identified as trans because they were distressed?”

This stood out to me from the Hadley Freeman article.
And this is what the TRA's are trying to ban getting to the bottom of, if I'm not mistaken, under the guise of saying it is conversion therapy.

@NotBuyingThis I bet they didn't quote their sources for that 'ongoing research' did they? Thought not...

Mermaids have admitted, in court, on their own volition, that they have no medical expertise whatsoever.

So why the actual fuck are the nhs listening to them?

So sorry Scaredms 💐

Clinicians were seeing increasingly mentally unwell kids, including those who didn’t just identify as a different gender but as a different nationality and race: “Usually east Asian, Japanese, Korean, that sort of thing,” Dr Matt Bristow, a former Gids clinician, tells Barnes.

ANIME. Always back to the anime.

ANIME. Always back to the anime.

I really don't understand why these groups of people are so in to anime. Is it just the fantasy world thing or is there something specific about anime?

@ScaredMs I'm not the thread police and I'm not reporting your post, but I'll be honest, I think your post gives too many specifics about an individual and should be deleted. I feel for you and I end up deleting a lot of draft posts - it's always a judgment call but please do consider self reporting. I think the case sounds terrifying but if you have raised safeguarding concerns you have done the most important thing.

@NotBuyingThis what a load of nonsense!! Incredible! Any references at all??

Just popping this down and then going back to read the whole thread.

Remember the Tortoise News podcast series on GIDS?

Well they did a follow up group discussion session at the end of January.

Two main points of interest:

1. the AMAB non binary person interviewed on the podcast is a junior staff member at Tortoise (although the dude hosting the talk is careful not to let they’s opinions dominate/stop others speaking)

and

2. at about 41 mins in Bernadette Wren, former senior GIDS clinician, blames the lack of long term follow ups on the GRA

I don't see it a lot different to insta-culture with airbrushed photos and unobtainable / unrealistic representations of women that many girls aspire to and of course can't be cos its not real. We KNOW this is damaging to girls.

Anime representations aren't hugely different in that sense. They are clearly fantasies but also aspirations too. They are often overly sexualised and have extreme gender stereotyping.

There's definitely an 'ideal' representation of 'male' and 'female' in both though. It think its possibly part fantasy but also simply part alternative to mainstream lifestyle. In the same way that Goths very much were - but sexualised.

Anime is also about online communities and online relationships / indentity. You can be someone completely different on the internet - so it also has this element of 'disassociation' of identity.

But I'm not sure its that different to filters and photos taken from odd angles in terms of being unrealistic. Its just alternative.

I think I find it fascinating though, because it highlights its cultural and not innate though. Its a socially driven phenomen and the anime actively being a theme shows it though, and thats why I think its important to note. If trans is innate you'd expect people to be into a vast number of different cultural things and different politics. Not all into the exact same shit.

I know. What would’ve happened if they’d insisted to the junior staff that the book be published?

I cannot fathom working somewhere where junior staff call the shots.

I see that the cover of the book has a positive quote from Emily Maitlis. Does that mean she's one of us?

@Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Their boards and message groups became a purity spiral. Any slight dissent from the standard script and you were policed and ‘educated’. People were keen to present as very confident that they knew best and were more up on the latest research than the clinicians they were seeing. Those who felt uncomfortable or unsure soon dropped off and stopped posting. As a newcomer, you were only ever faced with confidence and certainty. For people who were afraid and unsure what to do, it was a compelling narrative, for some at least.

I saw that @bellinisurge. I would say at least on the issue of treating distressed children in this way, it's a yes. And once you decide that the 'trans child' concept is a huge oversimplification and projection of adult issues, other elements start unravelling.

How about working at the Tavi, where the shots were called by people who didn't even work there, didn't have medical training (but somehow got themselves a reputation as experts, whilst simultaineously denying they are experts) and didn't have any ethical training / responsibility.

That'd be even more unfathomable.

Its a complete abdication of responsibility. The publishers didn't want to say the true because they were too fucking scared of the kids. An inability to say no to children is the feature of this decade.

How about working at the Tavi, where the shots were called by people who didn't even work there, didn't have medical training (but somehow got themselves a reputation as experts, whilst simultaineously denying they are experts) and didn't have any ethical training / responsibility.

And then after the Tavi was shut down after being criticised for that amongst other things, the "new Tavi" brings them in to do some "training" 🤯

TheKeatingFive · Today 20:58
Mermaids have admitted, in court, on their own volition, that they have no medical expertise whatsoever.

So why the actual fuck are the nhs listening to them?

This is so important.
They were giving advice to clinicians about specific children’s medical care and then they go into court and say they have no medical expertise. so did they perjure themselves in court or were they giving medical advice when they knew they didn’t have the knowledge to do that?

It's a huge mix-up between what was originally seen as a medical, mental issue, stripped of that content and replaced by ideology, but somehow the medical pathway still remained.

I struggle to think of a similar example.

Its a complete abdication of responsibility. The publishers didn't want to say the true because they were too fucking scared of the kids. An inability to say no to children is the feature of this decade.

Agree, the sense of children as being sort of pure, unspoiled avatars is widespread.

This thread fell off the front page very quickly so thought I’d tidy up and link here:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4738264-an-open-letter-to-nhs-england-from-concerned-gids-staff

50/85 remaking GIDS staff bleat about job losses and desperately deflect responsibility.

They shouldn't just lose their jobs. They should be jailed.

Its a complete abdication of responsibility. The publishers didn't want to say the true because they were too fucking scared of the kids.

I went to see Arthur Miller’s The Crucible recently - the parallel between the child-centric Salem witch trials and today’s ideology-driven purity spirals was notable.

Thank you, @RedToothBrush

I wonder if it will make the Sunday papers tomorrow. If it does will have the usual bollocks about transphobic media making the lives of a vulnerable minority less safe. When the reality is No Debate is Over and Acceptance Without Exception is a Safeguarding Nightmare.

These poor children.

Slowly the drip drip is getting through to the public.

The harm of child, tends to be a red line that the public don't tolerate when its laid bare.

There are numerous precedents.

It’s got a below the headline spot on ST’s cover, but presumably it’s exclusive to them tomorrow and won’t be in the other papers til Monday?

www.tomorrowspapers.co.uk