Tavistock scandal ‘on a par with East German doping of athletes’ - top of Times home page tonight

[Fenlandia]

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e04f4958-aa26-11ed-8a03-b2faadede0c5?shareToken=81bddfc85342137edc81797069ccd8cb

teresa smith AT treesey
Retweeted just four hours ago, before The Times /HadleyFreeman’s reporting - based on hannahsbee’s new book on the Tavistock - went live:

As a side note, everyone should go to their local Waterstones and place copies of the book next to Welcome to St Hell.

They've just been discussing this piece on the Nolan show on Radio 5, from 23.19 on. Nolan saying there are still people trying to "cancel" him within and without the BBC for his podcast series, the "flak" journalists get for covering it and "you would be gobsmacked at the seniority of some of the people that don't think you can have a conversation on this issue"

That’ll be that BBC Pride Diversity network thingy - EDI tentacles all over the place.

www.vercida.com/uk/features/bbc-pride-network?company=99

www.gbnews.uk/news/bbc-policed-by-transgender-pride-network-as-broadcaster-accused-of-caving-to-demands/420699

India lies his arse off on Twitter on a daily basis. With masses of followers believing his bullshit

@NewspaperTaxis that’s a very difficult read. I’m so sorry your mother was treated so appallingly and that your concerns were brushed off.

Seconded.

With all the criminal cases coming to light re: serving police officers and associated debates about who should investigate the investigators, your mother’s story begs the question, who regulates the regulator?

Where can we turn when the CQC responds so inadequately as to not even look at video evidence?

We should be able to trust the hospitals, health trusts and care homes we turn to for help with our gender distressed children and our vulnerable parents.

I’m so angry at all of the people who have turned a blind eye to what has been going on. Parents who just wanted to be cautious and wanted evidence for the medical pathway have been demonised. Absolutely demonised and our children have been given the clear message that we are not supportive and not to be trusted. It’s absolutely appalling.

It’s been impossible to get those who should listen, to listen and that goes beyond the NHS. Ona very small personal note, when we started down the formal complaint process with our daughter’s former school, I sent the Head a copy of the Appleby judgment and outlined why it was important and what it revealed, I’m an attempt to convince the ahead that this was a very serious issue and the school were going in the wrong direction.

This was his response to me:

“Thank you for sending me a copy of the judgment of the Employment Tribunal in the Appleby case. I have not had the opportunity to digest this but note that in the early section it is stated that the Tribunal was not required to make findings on the rights and wrongs of the treatment provided by the GIDS service. In the interests of clarity, I should make it clear that I view the meeting as an opportunity to better understand what you seek rather than one where I would be engaged in discussions about the merits of the complaint.”

I knew at that point, right at the start of the investigation that he was going to find in favour of the school.

Absolute bastards, the lot of them, from the NHS to the lobby groups to the captured in schools.

This being on the front page of the Sunday Times is huge. The paper has given Hadley 5,000 words for her interview with Hannah Barnes, and she lays bare in chilling detail the homophobia, the cavalier attitude to untested medical treatments, the malign influence of lobby groups like Stonewall. I don’t see how anyone can ignore this now. It’a a massive scandal. The walls are tumbling down.

Here’s an example of just how badly concerned parents were treated by the Tavi:

twitter.com/bayswatersg/status/1435203195270320130?s=61&t=FN1sS54YOXJb6PaYFzIZJQ

Did a quickly check only but haven't seen this posted. The Sunday Times Comment piece:

The Tavistock experiment can never be repeated

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/951373ba-aa44-11ed-8a03-b2faadede0c5?shareToken=127ef5f6991784aac504c4f774c8ee74

Also their letters. More about the aggressive actions of adults in certain organisations. But they're the same adults pushing kids down the Tavistock path and I thought I'd add while posting:

Trans rules flushing away women’s rights

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/eabb2c6a-a88f-11ed-9813-2dc4880907f5?shareToken=f765454b3245fe9d3979ee87a73eb1c9

Thanks for those links, @ResisterRex. I don't think until very recently we'd have seen every single letter published about this criticising Nicola Sturgeon/the SNP/gender ideology. Good trenchant editorial too.

I'm just worried that the regional hubs are going to just be mini-Tavis, that the rot has just been spread. Also one of my DC was assessed by CAMHS and diagnosed with ADHD after 15 minutes and the rest of the appointment was spent pushing drugs, with incorrect information given about them (DH is a neuroscientist) Our then suicidal pre-teen was given one further appointment at which we were told if we didn't want the drugs he would be discharged. That was all they could offer. Then idea of hubs coming out of that background merged with the Tavistock's equally appalling record really gives me the chills.

DH has sometimes along the way, said that I've exaggerated what's gone on. He's not always believed how far things have gone. I made him read both articles last night. His first comment about the Hadley interview was how long it was.

He's heard me say a lot of these things before and he watches newsnight but his eyebrows met his hairline with amazing regularlity. Then his jaw started dropping.

For him there's a major difference between hearing it from me, and the times leading with the story and it being backed with the data it contains. I think that Barnes being Newsnight and the Times fully backing her is a game changer - they both hold particular weight within political and civil service circles.

I'm yet to show him the article from the American whistleblower. I hadn't because I didn't think he would react well to it / believe it. The Hannah Barnes article change that. I think will see more along these more graphic lines come out and it shock people even more.

I just don't believe that many realise the depth and severity of this yet even if they are concerned. It's beyond their comprehension because 'they couldn't possibly allow that to happen' such is their trust in authorities and institutions. They have thought it's tabloid sensationalism hamming up stories to date.

I believe most here no longer think that. Indeed I think there are many here who believe we haven't even scratched the surface of the trans scandal and are worried about what will come out in time.

But yes, DHs reaction was the removal of clinging to the idea that 'it can't be THAT bad'.

I do wonder how it will impact on the Conversion Therapy Bill. Barnes is right - the government are insane to be pushing on ahead of the conclusion of the Class Report. That in itself shows the lack of joined up thinking within political circles. This combined with the timing of the Scottish prison debacle is going to make it harder and harder for the TWAW mantras to continue. I do wonder which politicians will continue to cling to the phrase or whether it will suddenly fade from political discourse in the UK...

This combined with the timing of the Scottish prison debacle is going to make it harder and harder for the TWAW mantras to continue.

Now long will the Guardian continue to support the TWAW belief? Maybe they’ll continue forever like people who won’t believe the earth isn’t flat.

I think there are quite a lot of people who are quite simply lost, who will never, no matter how much evidence is eventually presented, backtrack and understand the harms they have directly caused or supported. They will eventually either become their own form of flat earthers, clinging onto their beliefs with people rightly dismissing them, or they will quietly go away and lick their wounds, telling themselves we are all so mean and someday they will be vindicated.

Those articles just had me 😮
Publishers not being able to get things past their junior staff
The quote about 'my mum wants it more than I do'
The forging ahead with no knowledge of the long term consequences
The influence of Mermaids

It's incredibly demoralising that people who are supposed to be educated, caring and thoughtful can act in such a cavalier fashion.

I completely agree. Some of these practitioners will never admit what they’ve done.

Anastassis Spilladis the ex GIDS family therapist quoted in the Times articles has tried to speak out both whilst within the world of paediatric gender transition and after leaving. I’m gonna copy some links over in case this thread brings in some newer Mumsnetters

The Value of Extended Clinical Assessment for Adolescents presenting with Gender Identity Difficulties:

www.researchgate.net/profile/Anastassis-Spiliadis/publication/330911243_%27Taking_the_lid_off_the_box%27_The_value_of_extended_clinical_assessment_for_adolescents_presenting_with_gender_identity_difficulties/links/5d2ca3ec458515c11c3356c6/Taking-the-lid-off-the-box-The-value-of-extended-clinical-assessment-for-adolescents-presenting-with-gender-identity-difficulties.pdf

In Support of Research Into ROGD:

www.researchgate.net/profile/Anastassis-Spiliadis/publication/334530426_In_Support_of_Research_Into_Rapid-Onset_Gender_Dysphoria/links/5d363676299bf1995b428ab1/In-Support-of-Research-Into-Rapid-Onset-Gender-Dysphoria.pdf

The problem is that the only clinicians likely to want to apply for the regional hub jobs are those who are unquestioning about the ideology. Anyone in the least aware or gender critical will understand how fraught the job is likely to be, the anxieties and sensitivities that parents and patients will understandably have (after long waits, poor support, being led to believe that exploration is transphobic, that they have to say the right things to get what they genuinely believe will help them), the pressure to build an evidence base when their client population and a large part of wider society will view anything other than affirmation only as a newly illegal conversion therapy, the lawsuits that are coming. If the shine comes off the ideology then the service will not attract many clinicians at all, leaving it with ideologues, bad actors, those who cannot get jobs elsewhere or a high vacancy rate.

I think the Times is skewing it slightly and deemphasising something important in order to add to negative views of the NHS. What was going on at GIDS was a cockpit of the fight that's going on nationally. There were clinicians with directly opposed views on how to work with children expressing gender distress, in the same team, and being rooted in the Tavistock which is the centre of psychotherapeutic approaches. Imo that's actually quite important. I'd guess that there are few paediatric gender centres eg in the US where there is any such direct confrontation of approaches going on. I doubt there is any difference of views allowed in the private Indigo centre or whatever it's called in Manchester, or at Gender GP.

It feels very viscerally wrong, and it was, that in an NHS centre there was so little followup and too much focus on national commissioned status. But at least there were senior clinicians there who were probably the most authentically GC people in the country. They were working with these children in appalling distress, every day. I'm afraid tbh that what will happen in the future is that centres will fe set up where that conflict of ideas will simply be buried.

Towards a Gender Exploratory Model:

www.researchgate.net/profile/Anastassis-Spiliadis/publication/334559847_Towards_a_Gender_Exploratory_Model_slowing_things_down_opening_things_up_and_exploring_identity_development/links/5d3161be299bf1547cc270ac/Towards-a-Gender-Exploratory-Model-slowing-things-down-opening-things-up-and-exploring-identity-development.pdf?

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