Page 7 | Tavistock scandal ‘on a par with East German doping of athletes’ - top of Times home page tonight

rogdmum · 12/02/2023 22:21

And it’s the same old same old at the Tavi right now…

“The NHS’s trans clinic for children has been accused of peddling unscientific “fiction” to patients in the waiting room, the Telegraph can reveal.
Posters featuring the controversial “Genderbread person” are on display at the Tavistock’s gender identity service and young people are signposted to activist group Gendered Intelligence.”

archive.ph/R5vGe

And they say:

”The Trust has a clear position of independence, and engages with a number of support groups with a range of different positions”

Really? I’d like to know which support groups which don’t push immediate affirmation they engage with given that they have shut down engagement with Bayswater.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 12/02/2023 22:30

I see they’ve got some sort of pilot support group going with Allsorts 🤦‍♀️

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 12/02/2023 22:30

www.allsortsyouth.org.uk/gids-project

ResisterRex · 13/02/2023 08:20

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 12/02/2023 22:30

I see they’ve got some sort of pilot support group going with Allsorts 🤦‍♀️

Good grief.

ValancyRedfern · 13/02/2023 08:49

It seems to me that people will go to any lengths to avoid admitting they were wrong. I was listening to a report on the contaminated blood scandal; so many people knew but were more committed to saving face than saving lives. Same situation here.

RoyalCorgi · 13/02/2023 09:03

ValancyRedfern · 13/02/2023 08:49

It seems to me that people will go to any lengths to avoid admitting they were wrong. I was listening to a report on the contaminated blood scandal; so many people knew but were more committed to saving face than saving lives. Same situation here.

That's a very good comparison. And it's taken years to get anywhere near any kind of resolution or reckoning on the contaminated blood scandal.

There have been so many of these medical scandals now (vaginal mesh also springs to mind, as does the Morecambe Bay maternity scandal), and they all follow the same pattern where the early whistleblowers are attacked, ridiculed, sometimes sacked, and it's only after years of relentless effort by campaigners that the authorities acknowledge there's a problem. But the perpetrators are not held to account because by that time they've moved on and have usually been promoted to senior positions elsewhere. It's so disheartening.

ResisterRex · 13/02/2023 10:49

Badenoch, Javid, Stock, Havney in The Times:

Tavistock gender identity scandal reminds us to stand up for truth, says Badenoch

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/935bda12-ab48-11ed-a737-a480e119ff3e?shareToken=9bf364464e2d6846faa72efe1ea930f7

"The Tavistock and Portman NHS Foundation Trust was approached for comment."

Andante57 · 13/02/2023 10:50

It’s also covered in the Telegraph but not in so much detail.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 13/02/2023 11:17

Not just medical scandals, either - very much the same pattern in things like Hillsborough, or what's currently being dragged into the light in the Met.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 13/02/2023 11:24

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 13/02/2023 11:17

Not just medical scandals, either - very much the same pattern in things like Hillsborough, or what's currently being dragged into the light in the Met.

God yes.

It’s taken 34 years for the police to issue a National statement on their part in Hillsborough:

www.college.police.uk/article/national-police-response-hillsborough-families-report

They finally apologised about a fortnight ago.

I hope the NHS aren’t going to wait until all the major players in GIDS are dead or too elderly to bother with.

Tavistock scandal ‘on a par with East German doping of athletes’ - top of Times home page tonight

Kucinghitam · 13/02/2023 14:00

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 13/02/2023 11:17

Not just medical scandals, either - very much the same pattern in things like Hillsborough, or what's currently being dragged into the light in the Met.

I agree. It's the same-old same-old face-saving responsibility-shucking arse-covering.

BoreOfWhabylon · 13/02/2023 15:20

ResisterRex · 12/02/2023 10:04

Maybe it's in the book but what's curious, is who Polly Carmichael reported into? And what structure was that, and how close was that structure, to any kind of oversight?

Because I agree with others that some people did speak out. And they weren't junior, they were senior and influential people. So how come their concerns were able to be pushed aside?

Questions that should have been asked of Chief Executive Paul Jenkins, who conveniently retired after eight years in the position in December 2022.

Andante57 · 14/02/2023 08:40

There’s a review of Time to Think in the Telegraph today.

nauticant · 14/02/2023 08:48

This is now being discussed with Hannah Barnes on Radio 4 Today.

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 09:09

8:47 - interviewer (Nick?) really good actually. Brings up institutional capture

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 09:09

And homophobia

BoreOfWhabylon · 14/02/2023 09:15

It was Justin Webb. He's always tried to keep himself well informed on the issues.

potniatheron · 14/02/2023 10:34

NotBuyingThis · 11/02/2023 20:45

I recently attended a NHS training. It was like trans bingo. It had the lot. Starting with the "transgender baby". "Hormone washing" in utero. "Male brain in a female body". Recommendation of Mermaids (who are sadly under attack from anti trans forces).
The only good thing was that advice to diversify our social media feed recommended following Jeffrey Marsh and Katy Montgomerie - From the comments I would say others on the session were extremely ignorant of the whole thing - if they dabble their toes in JM and KM I should think their brains will well and truly fall out!

Non binary explained!!!

I'm sorry, what?? Is this actually stupid Non-binary 'statement' an NHS clinically approved statement?? WHAT?????

potniatheron · 14/02/2023 10:59

nepeta · 12/02/2023 17:18

I would love to read a research paper on the impact of anime and related genres in all this. I understand that there is a specific sub-genre or something linked to anime where gay men fall in love with each other, have romantic sex etc.

This, I have been told, is mainly read by young teen girls, and several detransitioners have stated that it affected their desire to transition, because the relationships described were egalitarian and not exploitative and dehumanising. They felt the stories spoke about people like them and so that contributed to their identifying as gay boys or men.

There are also the Twitter profile pictures with anime faces, little girls with giant shining eyes. Very cute, and I am told, severely sexualised in some anime-type porn. These profile pictures are attached to accounts by teens, but often they are attached to accounts by middle-aged trans women. It might not be far-fetched that the cartoon faces are seen as the ideal towards which they are transitioning?

Proper research on all this would be great, because the correlation between anime consumption and transitioning clearly exists.

Show quote history

Yes, it's called yaoi and the girls who are fans of it are called fujos or fujoshis. Some of it is very inncent, some of it is quite rapey. And yes it plays a huge role in very online teen girls with mental ill health, deciding they are actually gay boys.

ResisterRex · 14/02/2023 11:53

Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/14/tavistock-clinic-ignored-link-autism-transgender-children/

"Children referred to Gids were ten times more likely than the national average to have a registered sex offender as a parent, while 42 per cent had lost a parent through death or separation, and 70 per cent had more than five “associated features” such as anxiety, depression, abuse, self-harm, bullying, eating disorders or suicide attempts"

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 12:29

Bloody hell

WarriorNun · 14/02/2023 12:34

That's another very in-depth article with shocking insights.

This book is going to be nuclear

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 14/02/2023 12:34

Its good that a fair bit of the mainstream media is getting their teeth into this, finally.

Anyone looked to see if the Graun has mentioned it yet....?

ResisterRex · 14/02/2023 12:36

Janice Turner's review:

Time to Think by Hannah Barnes review — exposing the collapse of Tavistock’s gender clinic

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/91450fd0-a3c5-11ed-8e45-d36dad29d912?shareToken=1b4e1a994662ddf89c244363c01812ad

IcakethereforeIam · 14/02/2023 12:49

I'm not clear how the Tavistock made money. I'm assuming what happened is the Trust was given money from the wider NHS/Government/taxpayer to 'treat' the patients/children.

I'm thinking they were given a certain amount per child and whatever they didn't spend on that child could be used, with restrictions(?), however they saw fit. So the more patients they saw, the more they skimped the treatment, the better? There would also be economies of scale.