Handmaid, Handmaiden.

[CandlelightGlow]

Can someone explain why it's been deemed appropriate to call women who appear to be defending men or considering men in any capacity, handmaids?

Does it mean something else that I'm not aware of? My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels, referring to women who are forced into ritualistic rape, pregnancy and childbirth.

How exactly does it link to a woman who in one's opinion, chooses to serve the patriarchy. Is it a term feminists should ever use? There is a strong connotation of victim blaming if you are choosing to refer to another woman as a willing handmaid. How is it justifiable?

I'm not asking for examples of when you would consider someone fitting the definition of "handmaiden". I've seen this term thrown around on a couple of threads recently and I'm concerned that it's become a term used largely by women, to insult other women, often in the context of feminist discussions, and I find it interesting that given this very particular context, it's deemed acceptable to use? Again, given the highly misogynistic connotation feeding into the "willing female victim" narrative that already plagues patriarchal rhetoric.

Fair point and I’ve now read your post that you were called that, so I appreciate you must be annoyed.

Do you think there is a word that can be used to describe women who prioritise men over their own sex class?

What's wrong with 'accomplice'?

As in:
“The oppressor would not be so strong if he did not have accomplices among the oppressed.” (De Beauvoir)

That's quite a feminist, non-patriarchal way to describe dick-worshipping.

Tropes, call out, cis, etc….

Dick worshipper also works as it references the oppressor and makes clear his structural power.

It’s boring. And De Beauvoir spoke French. Handmaiden is a brilliant, English, accurate word to describe exactly what we are talking about.

I've no objection to handmaiden - I think it is perfectly clear to anyone whether they have seen "the Netflix show" (FFSS!!!!!) 'Handmaid's Tale' or not.

I just am helping out anyone who finds it a bit icky.

That makes perfect sense. I was about to answer @WildIris 's question about which word to use with "complicit" so it makes sense.

I am fed up with terms being used to tar women and bring them down. Mainly because, once you have a noun to represent somebody's ideas, it becomes easy to be lazy, or misrepresentative, and to just use it as an insult. Like, if you just don't like someone's views and they disagree with you, you just call them a handmaid and then you feel vindicated. But if you say that they're complicit, there is more accountability and it's less of a pejorative, more of a genuine criticism of their ideas, rather than an ad hominem insult.

Because of the alternate meaning of handmaiden

"a person or thing that serves a useful but subordinate purpose: logic is the handmaid of philosophy"

The term in itself is patriarchal as it relates to female servitude; women who espouse misogynistic views are handmaidens of the patriarchy because they serve a purpose in upholding patriarchy

I think Atwood was very clever to use the term in her book.

I would wonder which of your views causes people to label you a handmaiden. I know why people would label me a TERF, I am not bothered as I'm confident in my view and so don't see it as hugely insulting.

I always have a wry chuckle when I see ’ball palmer’.

‘Princess Consort to the Penis People’?

An accomplice has knowledge.

Do we think handmaidens have knowledge?

Collaborator?

Interesting perspective thank you

I think women who get labelled "handmaiden" don't have knowledge of why their views uphold patriarchy, hence why they are so insulted.

The problem with "dick worshipper" is again it is reductive. It's also easy for the person to dismiss, because it's clearly just an insult. It doesn't engage or incite discussion, doesn't encourage self reflection.

Insulting people doesn't really challenge misogyny, especially if you yourself are using a misogynistic insult (which is my problem with Handmaid).

That suggests equal status

They know who has the power and what they need to do to keep them on side. (At least in the short term)

This is a proper old style FWR chat - thank you all

When I think of collaborator, I think of France in the war, and the women who had their heads shaved for sleeping with nazis.

Vichy feminist?

Yeah it's good. Memories of Dittany.

Facilitator?? What was it that you said that gave rise to the label of handmaiden @CandlelightGlow

But we have to remember that we're talking about real people, with all the same capacities as yourself. Assuming that a "handmaid" is just "ignorant" is again, reductive and kind of arrogant. A woman may come to a different conclusion to you, it's not always due to a complete lack of knowledge.

Again, dehumanising people and assuming that they're just silly women is reductive and unhelpful (and kind of misogynistic).

There are plenty of women who are genuinely ignorant when it comes to feminism, but it's short sighted to (sadly) realise that there are a decent proportion of women who make the informed decision to be antifeminist.

short sighted not to realise**

Talking about complicity, there was this:

www.bing.com/videos/search?q=ivanka+complicit&view=detail&mid=1F2DA2E05FD31D55C1611F2DA2E05FD31D55C161&FORM=VIRE&PC=SMSM

I would wonder which of your views causes people to label you a handmaiden. I know why people would label me a TERF, I am not bothered as I'm confident in my view and so don't see it as hugely insulting

See I would never use the word TERF to someone. I think it's reductive and generalising and ultimately massively unhelpful. It also shuts down discussion.

I think it’s unavoidable, whatever word you use. Think of the term ‘gender critical’ for example. Just a shorthand way to explain beliefs. It’s now used aggressively by activists as a way to shut down conversations (just have a browse through here and see how many times women are referred to as ‘the GCs’ rather than as ‘a GC person’). It’s not reached the same level of vitriol as TERF yet but it will.

Use any word you like but the behaviour of ‘handmaidens’ is negative - any word used in place of handmaiden will become subject to the same reductive shorthand insult so it’s a bit of an aimless battle.

It just feels like the usual policing of women and their language again.