Handmaid, Handmaiden.

[CandlelightGlow]

Can someone explain why it's been deemed appropriate to call women who appear to be defending men or considering men in any capacity, handmaids?

Does it mean something else that I'm not aware of? My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels, referring to women who are forced into ritualistic rape, pregnancy and childbirth.

How exactly does it link to a woman who in one's opinion, chooses to serve the patriarchy. Is it a term feminists should ever use? There is a strong connotation of victim blaming if you are choosing to refer to another woman as a willing handmaid. How is it justifiable?

I'm not asking for examples of when you would consider someone fitting the definition of "handmaiden". I've seen this term thrown around on a couple of threads recently and I'm concerned that it's become a term used largely by women, to insult other women, often in the context of feminist discussions, and I find it interesting that given this very particular context, it's deemed acceptable to use? Again, given the highly misogynistic connotation feeding into the "willing female victim" narrative that already plagues patriarchal rhetoric.

Well try and set out an outer limit. When does a woman become a traitor?

Btw I have no idea - a thought

I love terf (little letters).
And terfy, and tervern and tervish.

I love terfing it up with my fellow terves.

But I would never use terf as an insult.

I see your point but I disagree, or at least I think there is a valid alternative.

Calling the beast by its name takes away its power. If you develop a special name for something, it has the power to be co opted, or become ironic, or is dismissed as a meaningless insult.

As already said, if someone is saying something misogynistic, why not refer to it as such? If someone is displaying internalised misogyny, is it really that much harder to use those 2 words than to say Handmaid?

I was thinking ‘dick-panderer’ but that has a different nuance - more like modifying what you do to be sensitive to men’s feelings and wishes at the expense of feminism.

Handmaiden has more of a feeling of a low-status official who hopes derives a sense of importance and perhaps favour through serving male interests.

So your point basically boils down to #bekind

I would never use the term TERF or handmaiden, they are mild insults.

However I've been called a TERF or told I have TERF views. I know why people say that. If they disagree with my views and resort to insulting me that's water off a ducks back to me.

So I'm interested why you've been sufficiently offended to start a thread about this insult vs all the other insults routinely used on mumsnet?

Secretary to the Sperm Makers?

😂 brilliant

But my question isn't "can women be a traitor" or "can women be misogynistic" - the answer is self evident.

My point is, why is it okay to use a misogynistic term in the name of feminism? Because it's not a general conversation words like Handmaids are used, it's pretty exclusively to do with women's rights and feminism.

Bollock-Licking-Bureaucrats?

Tea-Trolley-Pusher for the Testicle-Toters?

😂

@CandlelightGlow - you set the terms of your own problem, didn't you? You say it is a misogynistic term, but then, I do not think that you have had agreement.

So you are left with a name that defines behaviour.

Women can be ignorant, bootlicking, sycophantic and mean. Why are we not supposed to mention this?

The OP's hypothesis smacks of respectability politics - women must 'do better' and always be logical, measured, articulate in every interaction and not use insults - especially not gendered* ones. Otherwise the very foundation of feminism will be shaken to the core.

"Well we were going to give you ladies rights, but you used the word 'handmaiden' and that's just not NICE."

*using 'gender' correctly here

Ugh. Even if being incredibly reductive, no my point is not "be kind".

My original point was, do other women not see the worrying connotations behind the word handmaid, and are you comfortable labelling women with the word, given the implication is so very very patriarchal?

TERF might be used as an insult to women, but there it's not a term that has victim blaming connotations. There's no word in there that means something else, there's no literary background to it which would give a misogynistic context to the term.

As said in the OP, I have a real problem with the word, because there is a messy and multilayered implication. There is a victim blaming connotation hidden in there. If you call a woman a Handmaid, you're implying a woman has a choice to be and to act as a handmaid. It's such a patriarchal view of women, that they are responsible for their own victimisation. It's blaming women for patriarchal values. It's very basic and typical misogyny.

This is actually kind of the opposite of what I'm getting at. The point is that why can't you use the words "ignorant" "bootlicking" "sycophantic" or "mean" if a woman is acting that way?

Why do you not question the use of a term that reinforces patriarchal stereotypes through it's historical and literary meaning?

Is there a special gendered word for a man who's being sycophantic? Is he a Eunuch? Or do you just say, that guy is being sycophantic?

Its very sad how women's history has to be rewritten every generation. As has already been explained, the original term was 'handmaiden to the patriarchy'. If you insist on referencing The Handmaids Tale, they would be better called Aunt Lydias.

And yes, sometimes we do need a word to describe a class or type rather than an individual.

A man who is sycophantic to the patriarchy? How does that work exactly?

In the absence of coherent arguments demonstrating how human beings change sex or possess gendered souls, an awful lot of the criticism levelled at feminists here amounts to scolding and telling off for lack of decorum.

Misogyny describes hatred of women motivated by prejudice whereas handmaidening describes playing a role in upholding the patriarchy.

So I don’t think substituting ‘handmaiden’ with ‘internalised misogynist’ works at all.

Besides, if calling someone a handmaiden pisses them off, I doubt they will respond positively to being called a misogynist!

Why don't you tell that to the people who are actually the term? Why are you mad at me for pointing it out that it's being used this way, rather than people who use the word?

I've already said, that I think society needs to move away from using reductive and insulting nicknames for entire groups of people. When people say TERFs outside of Mumsnet, do you think people care about what TERFs actually believe or why, or that they're entire people with many views and life experiences? No, it's used as a hostile name to group together a whole load of people. Why exactly is that important or positive as you claim?

Ooh such finger wagging

A handmaiden is a female, sycophantic mug who serves male interests. There’s no male equivalent is there? Women don’t have higher status than men.

Maybe brown-nose is more commonly used about men.

I havent read all of this, but I agree with OP's initial post... I have also wondered the same, assuming that handmaiden was a reference to Atwood's creation.

I'm not really for, or against, but am curious at the usage

Us crotchety old terves must be feministing wrong AGAIN!