Handmaid, Handmaiden.

[CandlelightGlow]

Can someone explain why it's been deemed appropriate to call women who appear to be defending men or considering men in any capacity, handmaids?

Does it mean something else that I'm not aware of? My understanding is it comes from the Margaret Atwood novels, referring to women who are forced into ritualistic rape, pregnancy and childbirth.

How exactly does it link to a woman who in one's opinion, chooses to serve the patriarchy. Is it a term feminists should ever use? There is a strong connotation of victim blaming if you are choosing to refer to another woman as a willing handmaid. How is it justifiable?

I'm not asking for examples of when you would consider someone fitting the definition of "handmaiden". I've seen this term thrown around on a couple of threads recently and I'm concerned that it's become a term used largely by women, to insult other women, often in the context of feminist discussions, and I find it interesting that given this very particular context, it's deemed acceptable to use? Again, given the highly misogynistic connotation feeding into the "willing female victim" narrative that already plagues patriarchal rhetoric.

Netflix or Amazon, idgaf. I was feminising long before either.

I disagree.

I don’t care

In fact, I really fail to see how someone can claim that calling someone a handmaid in any context is not rooted in some form of misogyny, actually.

It's certainly extremely disingenuous of you anyway to say this, as you either know full well exactly how and when the term is being used, or you don't actually know at all and therefore on what basis are you arguing?

Going back to Mary, I am often astonished that the Magnificat made it into the canon. Yes, she calls herself the handmaid of the Lord, but then comes out with something that wouldn't be out of place on a revolutionary barricade. (There's a nice folk tale about a king of Sicily who took exception to this.)

We will have to agree to disagree as obviously we’ve both seen it used in a variety of different contexts.

This thread is plainly for screen shots and is NITS

Debating the words other women use is:

a)a waste of our time when we’ve got shit loads to do
b) pointless because there is no way to enforce rules even if a consensus was reached
and
c) undesirable because limits on acceptable speech are what got us to THIS shitshow.

Women should say be able to say whatever the fuck they want (and yes, that includes you complaining about the words of other women, and us telling you your complaints are a pointless waste of your own time).

I agree with you OP. I find women calling other women this to be the opposite of feminism.

Excuse me? What does "for screen shots mean"

It's honestly so ridiculous that a thread about language and misogyny would be considered "not in the spirit" on the FEMINIST CHAT board.

i think you should have that post deleted.

It is obvious you either have done something handmaiden-y and been called a handmaiden for it, and rather than wonder what that could mean, you try to shoehorn it into the bin of ‘wrong reasons people criticise me’.

Or

You like berating feminists and policing their language and have come up with an ill-informed scheme for doing so.

Either way, it is a bit weird that you are on a feminist board.

Maybe get your thread moved to FEMINIST CHAT then?

You don’t seem very feminist, OP.

The word ‘brigading’ springs to mind

Personally, I don't view it as sexist.

Obviously in the Atwood sense, it means a woman who is very clearly coerced.

However, I think that, firstly, in its dictionary definition it also means something or someone that is auxiliary to or facilitates the system in place. Not sexist.

secondly, I think that the usage is intended to emphasise that western feminists how have choices. I don't think using the insult is literally saying "you are the same as a sex slave" (and I suspect you'll find that the more popular usage of handmaiden moved away from sex slave towards someone who actually participated for personal or familial gain, as mistresses in the royal courts did). I personally think it is a shorthand for saying "why, when you could be anything else, are you being a tool for men?".

So, can the word “TERF” be used too then?

The equivalent to a handmaiden in Attwood's world is an Aunt, someone who upholds the patriarchy for their own benefit (ie, not being sent to the colonies/be a servant). Handmaids don't have choices.

However the term for what you're looking for is misogynist. Women can be misogynists too. For me, that's more useful because often women who are behaving as 'handmaidens' either don't have choices or are acting in accordance with their own internal misogyny. I think there's a difference between someone making choices to protect themselves and women actively seeking to uphold patriarchy.

Those women do exist though. And particularly in feminist spaces it's useful to have a commonly understood term to note that behaviour. For example, if someone was on a thread in chat saying Bennylyn Burke should never have gone off with someone she met online, I would handle that differently to someone wading into feminism to start a thread saying we should really make sure men like Andrew Innes access to women for sex to stop these crimes happening.

Oh my, yes I did mean to post on the other one.

While I completely respect the rights and freedoms of speech, I did make this thread, whether people like it or not, in good faith and just because you (general you) as a feminist don't agree it's important or relevant, I see no reason why I as a feminist cannot post what feels relevant and important to me.

Therefore, can I take this opportunity to say that I have posted incorrectly on Sex and Gender and perhaps if you prefer threads about sex and gender you could post on some other threads instead of this one.

In particular @EndlessTea , you've already said ages ago that you find this thread bollocks, yet continue to post on it just to take the piss.

Again, this discussion may not be relevant to you, and you may have absolutely no problem using the word handmaid and see know inherent patriarchy or hypocrisy in its use, but I do and I've been genuinely interested in most of the responses. So for the final time, just because you don't find the topic interesting or relevant, I ask why you feel the need to keep posting if that's the case, and ask that you maybe stop.

If any more posts come up actually talking about the use of the word, I'll be reading them, but I hope you understand if I don't continue to engage in the same poster pointing out over and over again that they don't agree with the premise of the thread.

Well, useful idiot for sexist men is simply too long

No, the Aunts in Atwood’s books also had no choice. Try reading her books.

It's like any insult - a lazy way to shut down, dismiss, or invalidate those you don't agree with.

It wasn’t the feminists who called for words to be banned, it was transactivists. Feminists said, well if we can’t accurately describe reality, then you don’t get to disparage us with slurs.