“Cis” woman outraged over women-only FB Group for beauty tips

[NitroNine]

I mean, if you’re hoping to go viral perhaps don’t literally announce it at the start of the video; but excellent work cramming in a concatenation of completely unrelated TRA talking points that sound even more incoherent than usual when the [performative?] outrage is about women daring to claim their right to homosocial spaces, specifically a FaceBook Group for sharing beauty tips for hooded eyes.

But this Instagrammer decided that the mere existence of this group is an affront. Calling it out publicly & repeatedly stating it must breach FB community standards is a blatant attempt to instigate mass-reporting to shut them down. (Posting here isn’t going to make it worse, this thread was brought to you courtesy of your one who thinks they’ve cervix & “female blood” & feck knows what else.)
This is an amazing - and shocking - video from Steph, a cis woman from Liverpool. She was on Facebook, and has found a make-up tips group “for biological women only.” Wow 😳 .Hitting all the home truths.

Low bar there for shock & amazement; & a neat reminder IW is in fact not at home to truth as regards biology + biochemistry, history, women’s lived reality & assorted other things. But IW thinks women should behave exactly like this: recite the mantras; roll out the red carpet for males to enter female spaces; be outraged should other women try to maintain boundaries; insist on making any & all spaces mixed sex because they’re fine with it [& it’s bigotry not to be]; refuse to believe the mountains of evidence.

I don’t wear make-up. I used to wear it when I was on-stage for amateur ballet performances, but I’d have to beg for help with it. Even so I can easily imagine why this is a women-only space: because even if you were to get a woman in there who barely knows which end of an eyeshadow brush to use, she’s not going to destroy the group dynamic in the way a male person, however they’re identifying, will. If she posts something & doesn’t get lots of replies/doesn’t consider them fawning enough she won’t have the screaming ab-dabs & accuse everyone of bigotry. She also won’t post inappropriate content to the group; nor send members inappropriate messages/images. (Not making up things there MN, those are real issues from fashion & beauty FB groups.) Muslim women who dress modestly are sometimes very into make-up - they’re not going to want to share a space like this with with TW.

The absolute burning rage at the idea women are saying no to males over anything, denying them access to anywhere, is quite horrifying. As is the fact there are grown women colluding in their campaigns to destroy any space, however small, that says “no”.

So how did you find this dormant-for-months thread @pollymere?

@Ereshkigalangcleg it was actually a genuine question. Not a gotcha. I do have a trans-male relative who has hooded eyes and who wears make-up.

However, the group seems only interested in CIS women and potentially those whose eyes have become hooded.

I happen to see trans-women as just women. I don't go around demanding people prove gender by showing me the contents of their underwear. There are probably several transwomen in this group and all the CIS ones have no idea.

What's important is not excluding others without valid reason.

@WhereYouLeftIt It came up on my "Trending Threads" after I commented on another thread. No hidden agenda unless Mumsnet has one?

Is your relative male or female @pollymere? "Trans-male" would imply they are female and now identify as a man? But yet you talk about trans-women...

Also "cis" is not necessary and certainly doesn't need to be capitalised.

If male people dominate and disrupt groups that are mainly populated by women, it is proportionate and reasonable for women to want a female only space. Your relative can start or join a make up group that is specifically mixed sex.

You'd be surprised how often males don't pass as women online. Male socialisation has a way of peeking through. Plenty of male posters on MN who I called (to myself, because this isn't a female only place) before they announced it. It's not necessarily even a diss. I have plenty of males in my life whom I adore. I'd never force them upon other women though.

And being able to pretend some males are women is a very privileged position.

I have no problem with you holding that position.

But I do have a problem with anyone consenting on behalf of other women.

I am quite proud that I have no idea what a 'cis woman' is. Will continue to try to avoid this nonsense like the plague.

A “cis” woman is a woman in a woman’s biological body who feels like a woman.

A woman, in oldspeak.

These days we need prefixes to soothe the angst of men who feel like women. We are now a subset of our own sex.

I happen to see trans-women as just women. I don't go around demanding people prove gender by showing me the contents of their underwear. There are probably several transwomen in this group and all the CIS ones have no idea.

God, no. <shudders>

What sort of places do you frequent where looking in underwear is necessary?!

Women will just say this is a women's group, no males allowed.

Job done.

i'm sure none of your tw friends would dream of violating women's consent by ignoring that.

"I happen to see trans-women as just women. I don't go around demanding people prove gender by showing me the contents of their underwear. There are probably several transwomen in this group and all the CIS ones have no idea."

You haven't even considered why this Facebook group wishes to be female-only, have you?

"What's important is not excluding others without valid reason."

Well, let's consider their reason, shall we? Over the past few years I have heard of many Facebook groups which have been set up for a particular interest and which were mainly of interest to women. Knitting, crochet or somesuch. They were not set up as women-only groups, it's just turned out that they became so. Anyone could ask to join, men just didn't.

Then, someone new asks to join. Maybe they ask if it's OK that they're a transwoman because it seems to be an all female-group, maybe they don't. Regardless, they are welcomed into the group, because transwomen can be interested in knitting / crochet / whatever, right?

Only it soon becomes apparent that discussing knitting and sharing patterns is not on the new member's mind. Instead of posting a picture of a recently-completed project, they start posting pictures of themselves in a variety of outfits, asking for the group's opinion of the outfit, fishing for compliments. The outfits may be unremarkable and raise no red flags per se. But that's not what the group is for. No other members do this, just this male. He has not joined to discuss knitting. He has joined in order to acquire a captive audience for his paraphilia.

Now, some members will "be kind" and will say ooh that's lovely, don't you look nice. Some will say nothing and think can we get back to knitting? Emboldened by this response, the male will abandon all pretence at interest in the group's raison d'être and will begin to treat it as his Source of Validation. Constant fucking me-me-me posts, getting snitty if he doesn't get the response he wants. Members silently leave the group because this wasn't what they were here for. Some may give their reason for leaving quietly to the group administrator, who may despair because they're watching the group be destroyed by this one person, or the may be the BeKind kind who says 'and don't come back'. Whatever, membership dwindles, engagement dwindles, the male get louder seeking Validation, compliments, women treating him as (he thinks) a woman.

Ex-members miss the group, this was something thy enjoyed, dammit! One or more of them bites the bullet and takes on the admin of setting up a new group and contacting other ex-members to see if they're interested. The group either goes private, or states openly they are female-only. (Being openly female-only makes the a target for Seekers of Womanly Validation, but the admin remember how their beloved ex-Group was destroyed and hold firm.)

Of course, you probably don't think that's a valid reason. But those running the new groups do, and so do I.

Isn't it transphobic to suggest a person's gender can be known upon looking in their underwear? I thought gender identity was a soul thing?

Whereyouleftit your post has reminded me about a FB group related to a fashion brand. Recently a person who claimed to be a transwoman posted to much fawning and adoration. Fine, it's a mixed sex group full of a fair bit of unconventional presentations. In fact the only things that marked the person as different was aforementioned fawning and the fact that they immediately posted about wearing out the crotch in their clothes. Nobody else male or female in the group draws attention to their genitals. Depressingly this appeared not to ring any alarm bells.

Yes I did minimise the behaviour Validation Junkies subject the unwitting facebook groups to, RavingStone. The outfits might start as unremarkable, but usually ramp up through raunchy, sometimes escalating to fetishwear. The purpose of joining the group is to focus attention on me! me! me! and get that "fawning and adoration" that they somehow never perceive as insincere.

A trans male? Grammatically, that parses as a male person who is transgender. But you refer to them as having a vagina, so you mean a female transitioner? Why would a female transitioner who wishes to be perceived as male want to join a women's only group? Would it not trigger their dysphoria?

Regardless, please see my comment dated 09/02/2023 at 22:58. They can join the original group.

Oh ffs. I know the group you mean. It was set up as an alternative to another Hooded Eye Make-Up Group on fb, after the admin started kicking people out of the original group for "transphobia". Read, objecting to males posting sexual pictures.

The women left, as they were told, and made a new group. And they're still being attacked, are they?

The instagrammer can simply join the original, inclusive group, can't she?

How would anyone prove their gender by showing their genitals? Are you confusing biological sex with the man made concept of gender?

Oh I joined that group. And quickly got pissed off at transwomen posting NSFW stuff so buggered off when I saw women who politely asked could it be restricted to make up and not outfits get booted out for transphobia.

However, the group seems only interested in CIS women

I'm sure they have plenty of women who don't identify as "cis", given that it's meaningless in group jargon. Please respect their identity.

Also, the use of capitals for your meaningless in group jargon makes it look like you mean the Construction Industry Scheme? You perhaps think most of the women work for them? If so I apologise for my confusion and can reassure you that's not the case @pollymere

There is or was an FB group dedicated to documenting this phenomena.