“Cis” woman outraged over women-only FB Group for beauty tips

[NitroNine]

I mean, if you’re hoping to go viral perhaps don’t literally announce it at the start of the video; but excellent work cramming in a concatenation of completely unrelated TRA talking points that sound even more incoherent than usual when the [performative?] outrage is about women daring to claim their right to homosocial spaces, specifically a FaceBook Group for sharing beauty tips for hooded eyes.

But this Instagrammer decided that the mere existence of this group is an affront. Calling it out publicly & repeatedly stating it must breach FB community standards is a blatant attempt to instigate mass-reporting to shut them down. (Posting here isn’t going to make it worse, this thread was brought to you courtesy of your one who thinks they’ve cervix & “female blood” & feck knows what else.)
This is an amazing - and shocking - video from Steph, a cis woman from Liverpool. She was on Facebook, and has found a make-up tips group “for biological women only.” Wow 😳 .Hitting all the home truths.

Low bar there for shock & amazement; & a neat reminder IW is in fact not at home to truth as regards biology + biochemistry, history, women’s lived reality & assorted other things. But IW thinks women should behave exactly like this: recite the mantras; roll out the red carpet for males to enter female spaces; be outraged should other women try to maintain boundaries; insist on making any & all spaces mixed sex because they’re fine with it [& it’s bigotry not to be]; refuse to believe the mountains of evidence.

I don’t wear make-up. I used to wear it when I was on-stage for amateur ballet performances, but I’d have to beg for help with it. Even so I can easily imagine why this is a women-only space: because even if you were to get a woman in there who barely knows which end of an eyeshadow brush to use, she’s not going to destroy the group dynamic in the way a male person, however they’re identifying, will. If she posts something & doesn’t get lots of replies/doesn’t consider them fawning enough she won’t have the screaming ab-dabs & accuse everyone of bigotry. She also won’t post inappropriate content to the group; nor send members inappropriate messages/images. (Not making up things there MN, those are real issues from fashion & beauty FB groups.) Muslim women who dress modestly are sometimes very into make-up - they’re not going to want to share a space like this with with TW.

The absolute burning rage at the idea women are saying no to males over anything, denying them access to anywhere, is quite horrifying. As is the fact there are grown women colluding in their campaigns to destroy any space, however small, that says “no”.

Thanks PP, now I'm thinking about his mini skirt barely covering his testicles - a shocking mental image 🤭

I left that one for the same reasons…

I do wonder how representative the validation seekers were of TW who had joined the group I mentioned. Was this the majority or was this a small minority with the rest just there to read about the new developments in retinols or tubing mascaras etc along with biological women.

I've got hooded eyes! Never realised it was a thing until now. I have no knowledge of make up. Will give it a go

Does mocking people really provide that much "entertainment value", though? Unless your life is so empty that spending time in a group you despise is better than nothing.

That Insta OP is unhinged.

Apparently these women could do with a man to teach them how to woman properly.

Every group that a man who says he is a woman joins seems to turn into the transshow.

I attended a conference where there was ONE trans speaker.

Instead of talking about their area of expertise (& they are very, very good at what they do, so everyone wanted to hear from them), they turned up in what looked like a rubber dress & spent way more than half of their stage time banging on about their dress, their hair, their lesbitrans relationship with a real woman, their make up & being trans.
The tiny bit of relevant info to the topic they were invited to talk about, they left until the end once they finished the 'me' show nobody asked for.

Never going to pay to attend if they are a speaker again & will look for an expert who is more interested in what they are valued for, than what costume they are wearing in the future.

If they had just stood up & talked about their area of expertise, I would be going back.

Just doesn't seem to ever happen though.

To be fair, there are so many women trying to do cut creases and complex contour, all of which has been borrowed from drag that they'd be better off learning from the experts.

Oh come off it. Plenty of women perfectly skilled at it. It doesn't require a man to teach women.

Basically what you are saying is that cut crease technique is only for women without:

History of suffering male violence
Religious backgrounds (Muslim, Jewish)
Just plain uncomfortable around men

But I'm guessing those women don't matter.

Also: Cis is a slur.

Isn't conflating transwomen and drag queens, like, horrifically problematic and transphobic?

Some of the women may not be skilled. Some are. But the point is that they are sharing and learning because they feel comfortable, in part because the space is not full of a subgroup of men who tend to a) centre themselves and b) think they're better than actual women.

Doesn't matter if a drag queen could show them "better" contour techniques. They want to learn from, make mistakes with and be supported by other women.

Oh ffs. I know the group you mean. It was set up as an alternative to another Hooded Eye Make-Up Group on fb, after the admin started kicking people out of the original group for "transphobia". Read, objecting to males posting sexual pictures.

The women left, as they were told, and made a new group. And they're still being attacked, are they?

The instagrammer can simply join the original, inclusive group, can't she?

The cis women would benefit from inviting them in, not banning them and perhaps learning what they are failing so miserably at.

There's no such thing as "cis" and the average MTF trans person has nothing to teach women about make up. But they still often expect to dominate everything.

@journeyofinsanity why do you hate women so much? Who hurt you? Would you think it acceptable if I was in a group for transwomen who were learning about make up and was only there to mock them and laugh at them? Because some attempts at ‘presenting as female’ that I have seen are awful, I’d never dream of infiltrating their group to laugh at them and then actively boast about doing so on another forum. Must be that pesky female socialisation, or maybe my mother just brought me up better.

I don't hate women. I do however find stupid people entertaining whatever their sex or gender.

You’re doing a very good impression of a woman hater then, Well done. I think the clue was when you used the word ‘cis’ and said women needed tips from males to look better. I’d dial down the pretend misogyny though, it’s a tad overdone. 😉

I don't hate women. I do however find stupid people entertaining whatever their sex or gender.

Really, I for one find people who think being a woman is just a feeling a male can have amusing and foolish. And I pity people who are so naive as to not understand why women often prefer male free space.

@journeyofinsanity

So what about these women, who might want to learn but don't feel confident around men?

1.History of suffering male violence
1.Religious backgrounds (Muslim, Jewish)
1.Just plain uncomfortable around men

Are they just stupid for feeling the way they do?

Yes, I can’t help laughing at the absolute inability to hear their own words or see the ridiculous side of it all!

FB allows a great deal of tripe. And allows a great deal of hate speech towards transfolk despite it going against their community standards.

It does raise one question: what about a trans male with hooded eyes? Asking for a relative...
Vagina? Tick! Hooded eyes? Tick! Rubbish at eye makeup? Tick!

Maybe suggest your relative start a thread in style & beauty? Or search old threads there about hooded eyes, rather than old threads in fwr?

Makeup is just makeup. Sex or religious belief doesn't have to come into it. All humans are allowed to use it or not use it, although the social pressure to do so varies.

Nothing wrong with a protected characteristic wishing to form a group however. Especially when said characteristic is a historically opressed one.

As to whether a person who is of that protected characteristic wishing to join when they themselves wish to pretend they are not of that characteristic..... Well it's a curious request and I think it comes down to what their intention is?

Are they able to join, get tips, and suck it up that the group uses the word "woman"? Because, they are after all a woman themselves and not everyone believes in gender ID?

Or is there a level of narcissism in play that they will demand all language changes to suit their belief system? Or, worse, do they wish to force the group to open up to males too? In that case I'd gently suggest relative is looking more for a group that caters to their belief system than wishing to be amongst other women sharing makeup tips.

It does raise one question: what about a trans male with hooded eyes? Asking for a relative...
Vagina? Tick! Hooded eyes? Tick! Rubbish at eye makeup? Tick!

I'm not sure why you think this is such a gotcha. Of course all women can join, but if they harass or bully other members they're liable to get kicked out.

Quote fail was addressed to @pollymere