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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Scottish police defy Nicola Sturgeon over trans self-ID law

112 replies

IwantToRetire · 08/02/2023 00:40

Scottish police have defied Nicola Sturgeon’s sex self-ID drive by referring to a transgender butcher arrested in connection with the disappearance of an 11-year-old girl as a man.

uk.news.yahoo.com/scottish-police-defy-nicola-sturgeon-210109992.html

What with this and flying drones on sunday to keep women safe makes you wonder?!

OP posts:
BlackForestCake · 08/02/2023 00:52

Remember that contempt provisions apply immediately following any arrest, be careful of what you say. I think a thread on this subject has already been deleted.

Original poster
IwantToRetire · 08/02/2023 01:00

Its a quote from a newspaper article. Is mumsnet going to get the newspaper to delete their article.

There is nothing in my OP about the actual situation, it is a comment about a police statement.

If the police correct their statement then that presumably could also be commented on.

The discussion is about police procedures. There is nothing about any allegations of a crime.

If others did venture to do this on another thread then I can understand why that thread was deleted.

OP posts:
Whitefly · 08/02/2023 01:30

The other thread has too much information.

I would like to not spoil any court cases.

borntobequiet · 08/02/2023 05:52

I’m pleased to see this alternative thread.

JustWaking · 08/02/2023 05:58

BBC article says that a man has been charged, but with no detail about the man. It will be very interesting to see how this is reported! I have a feeling that the BBC will be brushing inconvenient information under the carpet.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64557459

ResisterRex · 08/02/2023 06:00

In terms of police processes, this comment piece from 29 Jan, the general secretary of the Scottish police federation said:

"It remains to be seen whether the Scottish government will revise its legislation, or take the Section 35 fight to the courts. Whichever happens, the hiatus should provide time for critical examination of further unresolved issues. Not least with considerations for the police, who had new demands put upon them as the janitor was switching off the parliamentary lights, and for more mundane essentials such as data gathering."

At last, people see the reality of gender reform — and don’t like it

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/e1e9955e-9f52-11ed-b4bb-1b45ac508ab9?shareToken=9d1c0ba5d4f728854c3c8c4586ad9417

But in June 2019, they said different wrt to data. So something is changing:

www.scotsman.com/news/crime/police-scotland-criticised-over-allowing-suspects-self-identify-gender-1416288

MidsomerMurmurs · 08/02/2023 06:32

I’m not sure this is evidence of Police Scotland “defying” Sturgeon. Seems more like they could have been leant on by ScotGov to temporarily prevent yet more embarrassment for the First Minister.

Buffypaws · 08/02/2023 06:36

the front page of the daily record suggests sturgeon will not avoid the embarrassment of the timing of this

BellaAmorosa · 08/02/2023 06:43

MidsomerMurmurs · 08/02/2023 06:32

I’m not sure this is evidence of Police Scotland “defying” Sturgeon. Seems more like they could have been leant on by ScotGov to temporarily prevent yet more embarrassment for the First Minister.

Yes, seems more likely to me. Not working, though.

WeWillLookBack · 08/02/2023 06:43

I am concerned this isn't the press 'defying' the FM, but actually colluding. I think the press will be very careful about reporting to reduce the amount of 'transwomen' being linked to these type of crimes. When they say 'men', society accepts that as 'another child / woman has been harmed by a man'.

ResisterRex · 08/02/2023 06:58

MidsomerMurmurs · 08/02/2023 06:32

I’m not sure this is evidence of Police Scotland “defying” Sturgeon. Seems more like they could have been leant on by ScotGov to temporarily prevent yet more embarrassment for the First Minister.

I don't think this will stop the questions. And they can't flip flop on this because there could already be one claim and changing your mind all the time will create even more complaints of more complexity. It's time for common sense to have a revival

FebName · 08/02/2023 07:03

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64557459

Interesting how the BBC have broke the news that he has been charged.

Has #notourcrime finally been taken seriously!!

Happylittlechicken · 08/02/2023 07:07

The crunch point will be when he appears in court I think. It will depend on how he presents. Will he claim to be trans to get to go into a woman’s prison or will he he tried as a man? My betting is the former, and as he is not a rapistgender, he’ll probably get put in the female estate

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 07:12

I'm not sure the wider press are going to keep schtum. Police reported man, bbc generally follows what police say.

But so far I've seen Telegraph article, Daily Record front page, sun and express both got it. DM article hasn't been updated since yesterday afternoon so they might well follow up (be unlike them not to!)

Sturgeon and co must be raging. They might have asked police to report it as a man but the locals were being pretty vocal online that it was a TW and it looks like it's becoming fairly widely reported.

Oh look, that thing that never happens is happening. Again

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 08/02/2023 07:16

According to the article, he transitioned 6 years ago. So not prison onset gender dysphoria. Just a regular male who happened to have a trans identity. And then commited a male pattern crime. As some males do. Agree with pp, far more likely that the police hoped to keep the trans bit quiet with this one. This is the privilege with a male trans identity, you get to pick and choose.

guinnessguzzler · 08/02/2023 07:21

The Daily Record piece is very good. Plenty of evidence to support the background they are giving on this. Well done to the journalists. The BBC piece is unbelievable. It will all come out though. Not rapist gender but I think the public will also feel strongly that child abductor gender should also not go into the women's. If asked most would probably also say murderer gender shouldn't and also violent crime committer gender, now that they have started to think about it. I think the Scottish Government are going to have to do a lot of back pedalling and undo a lot of the stuff they pushed through without any backing from the law as well. And I bet Sturgeon will be raging because she has been made to look like a fool. The Welsh government would be wise to pay attention too.

JellySaurus · 08/02/2023 07:24

Sturgeon and co must be raging. They might have asked police to report it as a man but the locals were being pretty vocal online that it was a TW and it looks like it's becoming fairly widely reported.

Hang on a sec! Are you implying that ScotGov are asking the police to lie? Or are ScotGov redefining TW? TWAWEWTESG (Except When This Embarrasses ScotGov).

zen1 · 08/02/2023 07:33

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 08/02/2023 07:16

According to the article, he transitioned 6 years ago. So not prison onset gender dysphoria. Just a regular male who happened to have a trans identity. And then commited a male pattern crime. As some males do. Agree with pp, far more likely that the police hoped to keep the trans bit quiet with this one. This is the privilege with a male trans identity, you get to pick and choose.

This is what I think too. It’s about saving face for the GRR bill.

guinnessguzzler · 08/02/2023 07:35

That's not my tw, she's too rapey. That's not my tw, she's too child abductory. That's my tw, she is fully law abiding and has great hair.

Rainbowshit · 08/02/2023 07:36

Well the genie is definitely out of the bottle now isn't if?! Don't think claiming TW are the most vulnerable is going to wash now is it?

unclebuck · 08/02/2023 07:39

guinnessguzzler · 08/02/2023 07:35

That's not my tw, she's too rapey. That's not my tw, she's too child abductory. That's my tw, she is fully law abiding and has great hair.

😂

Merlott · 08/02/2023 07:40

This is infuriating. From all angles.

The police and BBC reporting has deadnamed and misgendered the TW. I wonder if any of Twitter will make a complaint of transphobia to the police and the BBC? If not, why not? 🤔

Nigelladamascena · 08/02/2023 07:46

guinnessguzzler · 08/02/2023 07:35

That's not my tw, she's too rapey. That's not my tw, she's too child abductory. That's my tw, she is fully law abiding and has great hair.

😂

Awayyego · 08/02/2023 07:47

I’m finding the timing of everything fascinating. First the Scottish Government pushes through self ID legislation, with a lot of coverage. Then Westminster blocks it, with even more coverage. Within weeks we have a rapist in a women’s prison, one of the most violent male prisoners approved to go to a women’s prison, and now this. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but it’s really odd. I’m pretty sure Nicola did this hoping that Westminster would block it and rile up the Scottish people for independence. Obviously nobody has saved up the women’s prison scandals or this abduction for this time, but I wonder if these things have been happening all along but the press has been silenced, but now someone has let them loose. Wouldn’t be the first time the press has been used for political gain. If so, Nicola has been well and truly played. I voted no in the independence referendum but was beginning to swither a bit. Now, no way unless there is some extra scrutiny of laws beyond the Scottish Government. A second chamber would be unrealistic but we need something because we have seen what a few people with an agenda can do, especially with the strict whip the SNP has always had.

Datun · 08/02/2023 07:47

It says he says he's been 'butchering' for 50 years, but he's only 53.