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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Scottish police defy Nicola Sturgeon over trans self-ID law

112 replies

IwantToRetire · 08/02/2023 00:40

Scottish police have defied Nicola Sturgeon’s sex self-ID drive by referring to a transgender butcher arrested in connection with the disappearance of an 11-year-old girl as a man.

uk.news.yahoo.com/scottish-police-defy-nicola-sturgeon-210109992.html

What with this and flying drones on sunday to keep women safe makes you wonder?!

OP posts:
DerekFaker · 08/02/2023 07:54

BoredOfThisMansWorld · 08/02/2023 07:16

According to the article, he transitioned 6 years ago. So not prison onset gender dysphoria. Just a regular male who happened to have a trans identity. And then commited a male pattern crime. As some males do. Agree with pp, far more likely that the police hoped to keep the trans bit quiet with this one. This is the privilege with a male trans identity, you get to pick and choose.

He seems quite well-known locally so I don't think that's going to happen.

Datun · 08/02/2023 07:54

but I wonder if these things have been happening all along but the press has been silenced,

We've seen many crimes being reported as having been committed by women due to the ipso guidelines, when it's a reasonable bet it's a man. Sometimes obviously when they include a photo. Sometimes because of the nature of the crime. From rape to bestiality to violent beatings.

There's been many a speculative thread on here.

It looks like the press are flouting the (transactivist imposed) guidelines now tho.

DerekFaker · 08/02/2023 07:55

Damn I must learn to refresh before posting

axolotlfloof · 08/02/2023 07:55

FebName · 08/02/2023 07:03

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-64557459

Interesting how the BBC have broke the news that he has been charged.

Has #notourcrime finally been taken seriously!!

Honestly, no.
The BBC are protecting the "trans community". They are hugely captured, and I would say the worst organisation for reporting on these issues.

Datun · 08/02/2023 07:56

axolotlfloof · 08/02/2023 07:55

Honestly, no.
The BBC are protecting the "trans community". They are hugely captured, and I would say the worst organisation for reporting on these issues.

Show quote history

400 trans employees at the BBC apparently.

Clymene · 08/02/2023 07:57

His Facebook profiles are open and people are posting on them. There's no way they're going to keep the fact that he used the name Amy George and wore a wig a lot of the time quiet.

That poor little girl and her family.

SinnerBoy · 08/02/2023 08:02

Contrast this with what's happening in Canada, where a boy excluded for GC beliefs was suspended from school and arrested for attending a class:

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11725303/Teenager-ARRESTED-attending-class-suspended-challenging-transgender-ideas.html

Alexander's case is being backed by Liberty Coalition Canada, a group whose lead lawyers says his mission to 'seek justice, promote truth, and uphold the rule of law, is rooted in his Christian faith.'

'Obviously, he doesn't actually bully them as that term would be defined by reasonable people,' Kitchen told The Epoch Times.

Datun · 08/02/2023 08:04

What happened on the previous thread to get it deleted? Can we post an article from Reduxx?

Because it's an eye opening doozy.

BeethovenNinth · 08/02/2023 08:07

This is not defiance. It’s collusion to avoid an outcry

Rainbowshit · 08/02/2023 08:10

Awayyego · 08/02/2023 07:47

I’m finding the timing of everything fascinating. First the Scottish Government pushes through self ID legislation, with a lot of coverage. Then Westminster blocks it, with even more coverage. Within weeks we have a rapist in a women’s prison, one of the most violent male prisoners approved to go to a women’s prison, and now this. I’m no conspiracy theorist, but it’s really odd. I’m pretty sure Nicola did this hoping that Westminster would block it and rile up the Scottish people for independence. Obviously nobody has saved up the women’s prison scandals or this abduction for this time, but I wonder if these things have been happening all along but the press has been silenced, but now someone has let them loose. Wouldn’t be the first time the press has been used for political gain. If so, Nicola has been well and truly played. I voted no in the independence referendum but was beginning to swither a bit. Now, no way unless there is some extra scrutiny of laws beyond the Scottish Government. A second chamber would be unrealistic but we need something because we have seen what a few people with an agenda can do, especially with the strict whip the SNP has always had.

The timing really is astonishing isn't it? Could not be worse for Nicola.

It does make me wonder too.

Clymene · 08/02/2023 08:10

It's in the Telegraph (article has been archived too but I don't think we're allowed to post archive links)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/07/scottish-police-defy-nicola-sturgeon-trans-self-id-law/

This is the sub heading: Police Scotland referred to a transgender butcher arrested in connection with the disappearance of an 11-year-old girl as a man

SirSamVimesCityWatch · 08/02/2023 08:10

BeethovenNinth · 08/02/2023 08:07

This is not defiance. It’s collusion to avoid an outcry

Agreed. The police, the BBC and the Scottish government are all colluding to "protect the trans community" because, remember, they are the most vulnerable people in society. Not actual children, oh no.

midgemadgemodge · 08/02/2023 08:11

Too much negative talk and assumptions of guilt about the guy which might work in his favor on trial I would guess

roses2 · 08/02/2023 08:11

I don't understand why this isn't bigger news - an 11 year old girl was missing for > 24 hours and a 53 year old butcher was arrested??

What am I missing? Why is this a non front page news story?

MorrisZapp · 08/02/2023 08:12

I think we should tread with extreme caution here. We're all thinking the same thing, but we need to let it play out per usual legal process or it looks dangerously like a gleeful witch hunt.

I saw quite a few twitter posts last night which were pretty much 'gotcha!' but an 11 year old girl is a crime victim here and I don't think we do our cause much good by crowing about the perpetrator. It will all become crystal clear when he appears in court and if he goes to trial. The press will be all over it so there's no danger of a whitewash on this one.

Helleofabore · 08/02/2023 08:14

Datun · 08/02/2023 08:04

What happened on the previous thread to get it deleted? Can we post an article from Reduxx?

Because it's an eye opening doozy.

I am looking for it too? It was on FWR wasn’t it?

Datun · 08/02/2023 08:17

midgemadgemodge · 08/02/2023 08:11

Too much negative talk and assumptions of guilt about the guy which might work in his favor on trial I would guess

Ok. It was stuff he himself has said tho. I won't link but it's out there.

FannyCann · 08/02/2023 08:18

Yesterday the news round up on Today programme quoted a Times article I haven't seen as saying : For Nicola Sturgeon there are three sexes - male, female and rapist.
It did make me smile.
Do we now have four sexes?
male, female, rapist and butcher?

It's too early in the morning for me to get clever with words but the old nursery rhyme about the butcher, baker and candlestick maker is springing to mind.

Calmdown14 · 08/02/2023 08:21

I think the Telegraph have reported it this way so that it's about a clash of policy and not about the alleged offence.

They have to get round contempt of court rules. This will have been carefully considered.

The issue that needs to be pushed is how are gender identities reported and recorded by the police. NS can be pushed on this without reference to a specific crime (although we all know what we are talking about).

As I said on the pulled thread, there will be some odd reporting around this because we know the identity of an underage victim. That will constrain what can be written as really she should be anonymous.

Datun · 08/02/2023 08:22

I don't see how the press calling transwomen, men, would help Nicola Sturgeon. She's stuffed either way.

Calling them women hits a wall when she cant agree they go to a woman's prison due to the nature of their crime.

And calling them men blows an instant hole through the concept of self id.

Ndd135632 · 08/02/2023 08:27

guinnessguzzler · 08/02/2023 07:35

That's not my tw, she's too rapey. That's not my tw, she's too child abductory. That's my tw, she is fully law abiding and has great hair.

You got a laugh out of me today. A day when my period just started (and I have a pad because I am boycotting tampax until they use a woman to promote their products and not a man who thinks he is a girl) and I am still reeling from yesterdays male violence on women news. Well done x

Calmdown14 · 08/02/2023 08:28

Also he has now been charged which brings additional rules into play.

The Record have obscured the images in case identity is an issue at trial but it is quite clever to still include the two photos pixelated as it tells a certain story without needing to show it.

ResisterRex · 08/02/2023 08:32

I definitely haven't seen the alleged victim ID'd. If it was on the other thread in this section then it was pulled before I saw it. But this is not the only thread on MN as a whole and I saw one (which I won't link to) that I thought went much further than the FWR one did as at the last time I saw it.

How alleged crime is reported and how alleged perpetrators are described to the public is plainly a very important concern to the detection and prevention of crime. Obscuring relevant detail - be it by the police or the media, or our politicians- is wrong. Doing that stops the detection and prevention - and prosecution - of crime.

It's quite simple I think and there are many cases that show, had it not been for the relevant detail and information being put in the public domain, the detection and prevention, and prosecution of crime would not have been achieved.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 08/02/2023 08:40

I wonder if these things have been happening all along

The 'it never happens' thread shows that it has. No coincidental timing needed, just the press turning to look in that direction.

littlbrowndog · 08/02/2023 08:41

Bbc Scotland called him a man. Didn’t mention trans at all