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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

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Original poster

Scottish police defy Nicola Sturgeon over trans self-ID law

112 replies

IwantToRetire · 08/02/2023 00:40

Scottish police have defied Nicola Sturgeon’s sex self-ID drive by referring to a transgender butcher arrested in connection with the disappearance of an 11-year-old girl as a man.

uk.news.yahoo.com/scottish-police-defy-nicola-sturgeon-210109992.html

What with this and flying drones on sunday to keep women safe makes you wonder?!

OP posts:
lifeturnsonadime · 08/02/2023 08:41

Helleofabore · 08/02/2023 08:14

I am looking for it too? It was on FWR wasn’t it?

Show quote history

It was deleted for breaking talk guidelines. No further comment was made.

Rainbowshit · 08/02/2023 08:48

I think it's best MM err on the side of caution. We don't want to prejudice the trial and allow him to get away with this.

Helleofabore · 08/02/2023 08:50

lifeturnsonadime

thanks

lifeturnsonadime · 08/02/2023 08:50

I hope NS can be asked in very general terms without naming the victim or the suspect how this has happened. How has this suspect being referred to as male by the Police in pressed releases when they have 'lived as a woman' for a number of years.

It is surely a matter of public interest to know what is going on from a policy perspective which can be discussed without jeopardising any future criminal proceedings.

People often know a lot about suspects and it is not unusual for politicians to be asked to comment before a trial commences. The comparison that springs to mind is the fact that Sarah Everard's killer was a Met Police Officer was able to be discussed before trial.

ResisterRex · 08/02/2023 08:54

It is usual for name, age, area, occupation to be given when there's an arrest or a charge I'm sure.

Violetparis · 08/02/2023 08:58

The child's photo and name has been made public as she was reported missing. BBC Scotland published her name and photo on Twitter saying she had been found 'safe and well'. I hope she came to no harm.

beastlyslumber · 08/02/2023 09:00

Interesting. I wonder how Sturgeon will deal with the inevitable questions.

scratchedbymycat · 08/02/2023 09:04

Datun · 08/02/2023 07:54

but I wonder if these things have been happening all along but the press has been silenced,

We've seen many crimes being reported as having been committed by women due to the ipso guidelines, when it's a reasonable bet it's a man. Sometimes obviously when they include a photo. Sometimes because of the nature of the crime. From rape to bestiality to violent beatings.

There's been many a speculative thread on here.

It looks like the press are flouting the (transactivist imposed) guidelines now tho.

I wondered if it could also possibly be that the fact the GRR bill has been stopped has stirred something up in the TW more prone to aggressive behaviour. Maybe? The timing baffles me too: you'd think after the Isla Bryson affair every TW with criminal tendencies would be more wary of public mood.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 08/02/2023 09:05

ResisterRex · 08/02/2023 08:54

It is usual for name, age, area, occupation to be given when there's an arrest or a charge I'm sure.

Particularly important for sex-related crimes (which are frequently not first offences), because it can give other victims or witnesses encouragement to come forward.

BinturongsSmellOfPopcorn · 08/02/2023 09:09

you'd think after the Isla Bryson affair every TW with criminal tendencies would be more wary of public mood.

Erm. I really don't think it works that way. They don't check opinion polls or consult their public image adviser before deciding whether to commit a crime.

scratchedbymycat · 08/02/2023 09:16

Erm. I really don't think it works that way. They don't check opinion polls or consult their public image adviser before deciding whether to commit a crime.

Acknowledging that, I still think there's something weirdly unhinged about the timing of this. More unhinged than normal (also acknowledging that abducting a child isn't normal). This bloke was politically savvy re GRR bill, so it would surprise me if he wasn't following the rest of the news afterwards.

lifeturnsonadime · 08/02/2023 09:20

scratchedbymycat · 08/02/2023 09:16

Erm. I really don't think it works that way. They don't check opinion polls or consult their public image adviser before deciding whether to commit a crime.

Acknowledging that, I still think there's something weirdly unhinged about the timing of this. More unhinged than normal (also acknowledging that abducting a child isn't normal). This bloke was politically savvy re GRR bill, so it would surprise me if he wasn't following the rest of the news afterwards.

Yes I think this too.

The timing could well not be a coincidence.

Datun · 08/02/2023 09:24

scratchedbymycat · 08/02/2023 09:16

Erm. I really don't think it works that way. They don't check opinion polls or consult their public image adviser before deciding whether to commit a crime.

Acknowledging that, I still think there's something weirdly unhinged about the timing of this. More unhinged than normal (also acknowledging that abducting a child isn't normal). This bloke was politically savvy re GRR bill, so it would surprise me if he wasn't following the rest of the news afterwards.

Yes, he was following it all, that's true.

There could be a load of pent up, frustrated tw criminals, for sure.

Or maybe it's just more common than people think and/or the press reporting has ramped up.

Vebrithien · 08/02/2023 09:32

It's really interesting to look on the BBC page with the Scottish paper front pages. Lots of them have about a "trans" person having being arrested. The BBC has steadfastly not commented on it, despite it being the main story for many of the papers.

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 09:35

Without any presumption of guilt etc etc

This is in some ways a much more challenging case for the overall trans community. Isla Bryson is a huge problem politically and has driven a horse and cart through the "nobody would pretend to be trans" argument. But (despite the arguments for years that you are what you say you are) pretty much nobody actually believes Isla is anything other than a chancer, right? Prison onset gender dysphoria...

But many people have still maintained a cognitive dissonance- Isla isn't real trans, real trans people are super vulnerable, etc etc. They can agree it shows a weakness in the self ID law but distinguish that from what they think of as real transfolk.

This arrest is different. By all accounts this person had been openly living as a TW for years, was part of the trans community, was accepted locally as a TW. They can't disown this one as a pretender. This might be the start of some people having to admit what we all know - that there are predatory individuals in every community and that you cannot, as Maggie Chapman has done, declare trans people as a whole to be safe.

Vebrithien · 08/02/2023 09:42

@FactsAreNotMean

Absolutely.

We know the cost of having a "sacred cast".

We cannot assume that ANY group of people who share a characteristic, will never be a danger.

Not all teachers are predators, but all teachers have to be DBS checked. I don't cry out at the indignity of having my records checked, because I'm female and have never committed a crime. I accept that it is a necessary part of the safeguarding of children.

Ndd135632 · 08/02/2023 09:46

Aaaaaaaand it has hit the daily mail. The sunlight is blinding.

ArabellaScott · 08/02/2023 09:48

I won't comment on this case given the person has been charged.

The public needs to have faith in the police and the judiciary, and to an extent, the media.

What will happen if people start to think that they can't trust the police to be honest, the judiciary to be impartial, and the media to report accurately?

This stuff erodes society. It's incredibly damaging, and not just to the Scottish government, but to the whole of our social structures - and to trans people.

We need honesty, openness and accountability. We also need logic and fairness.

Basically we need the people who are supposed to be governing, policing and reporting our society to do the jobs they are entrusted to do.

ResisterRex · 08/02/2023 09:48

Mail headline:

"Police Scotland defy Nicola Sturgeon's gender self-ID drive by calling transgender butcher arrested over disappearance of 11-year-old girl a man - as embattled First Minister is engulfed by trans row"

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11726165/Police-Scotland-defy-Sturgeons-gender-self-ID-drive-calling-transgender-butcher-suspect-man.html

And the other thread has been reinstated

heathspeedwell · 08/02/2023 09:52

It's interesting how often a certain group of men frequently feature photos of themselves in their underwear on Facebook. I've never posted a photo of myself with my whole bra on display, and neither have any of my female friends.

I wonder what the difference is?

Ndd135632 · 08/02/2023 09:53

heathspeedwell · 08/02/2023 09:52

It's interesting how often a certain group of men frequently feature photos of themselves in their underwear on Facebook. I've never posted a photo of myself with my whole bra on display, and neither have any of my female friends.

I wonder what the difference is?

🤔

FactsAreNotMean · 08/02/2023 09:53

Knew the DM would be along shortly - seems to be pretty prominently placed online too.

Sturgeon will obviously refuse to comment as it's an ongoing case. But that won't stop the questions being asked or the stories being published.

Ryder68 · 08/02/2023 09:54

The Mail article says the actual butcher shop was featured in a JKR Strike book!

OneOfThoseOldFashionedWomen · 08/02/2023 09:58

guinnessguzzler · 08/02/2023 07:35

That's not my tw, she's too rapey. That's not my tw, she's too child abductory. That's my tw, she is fully law abiding and has great hair.

I proper laughed at this. Depressing as fuck that it is true.

lifeturnsonadime · 08/02/2023 10:02

Ryder68 · 08/02/2023 09:54

The Mail article says the actual butcher shop was featured in a JKR Strike book!

That could be why the shop has a copy of the Career of Evil in the window.

Published Oct 2015
Televised Autumn 2017

Very odd.