Page 23 | Girl abducted in Galashiels appears to have been held by transwoman

ArabellaScott · 2023-02-07T19:27:12+00:00

https://reduxx.info/scotland-crossdressing-butcher-arrested-in-case-of-missing-child/ Only source so far, but appears to be potentially corroborated by the Sun: https://www.thesun.co.uk/news/21308457/cops-search-butchers-and-forensics-scour-for-evidence/

NecessaryScene · 09/02/2023 20:03

I've seen you argue on here that all trans women are forever males and therefore a danger to women. I disagree with this.

Because...?

All evidence shows that "transwomen" retain fully male patterns of offending behaviour. (At the very least - some evidence suggests worse than males in general.) Clearly transwomen are men and transmen are women, looking at statistical behaviour in general. There's no behavioural evidence of a "cross-sex souls" beyond purely surface performance.

But regardless - whatever the lower risk "transwomen" you're thinking about, that doesn't matter, because the policies being proposed allow any man to freely call themselves a "transwoman" and bypass all the rules keeping men out.

So even if there was an identifiable concrete low-risk "transwoman" population, the fully normal male-risk population will use the license given. Indeed, it will be such a magnet that almost by definition the hypothetical "true transwomen" will be outnumbered by male criminals.

Which appears to be what we're seeing, and is the likely explanation for "transwomen" having apparently many times male offending rates according to some stats analysis. It's bad people opting in to the license.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 20:04

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:57

@Helleofabore you're claiming that it's impossible to change sex, I'm disagreeing based on an understanding of sex as linked to gender and in the legal sense.
I'm sure the dna specialist will be able to demonstrate that all people have either xx or xy chromosomes. Forever. And that these characteristics are externally displayed. No?
I've seen you argue on here that all trans women are forever males and therefore a danger to women. I disagree with this.

No one has ever claimed that all people are either xx or xy.

Please do not assume that your own ignorance is shared by posters on this board. We are quite well researched on this topic.

And please be assured that at the moment, not one person on this planet can change their chromosomes, what ever they are.

THE EXISTANCE OF PEOPLE WITH DSD's are NOT EVIDENCE THAT PEOPLE CAN CHANGE SEX.

I've seen you argue on here that all trans women are forever males - yes they are forever male.

"and therefore a danger to women" NOT ONE POSTER HAS DECLARED ALL TRANSITIONED MALES ARE A DANGER TO WOMEN. How many times do I need to repeat it.

I am not angry. But something needs to sink in because you seem to have a disconnect on what is and isn't being posted. I would expect based on your very own deep prejudices

"I disagree with this." yes. I know. You cannot show any support for your claims and yet you still claim that you have the true facts and knowledge....

Do you understand that not one of us has said the things that you are now claiming we have said.

"I'm sure the dna specialist will be able to demonstrate that all people have either xx or xy chromosomes. Forever. And that these characteristics are externally displayed. No?"

This is a straw man that you have just felt really great burning down.

It doesn't represent a thing that I have said. Any one else? Did anyone else say this?

This is why I am saying that you post dishonestly.

borntobequiet · 09/02/2023 20:06

I've seen you argue on here that all trans women are forever males and therefore a danger to women.

No one has argued that.

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/02/2023 20:06

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:11

@ShireWifeofNigelFarage @glinner can easily change their username you know. You should try it.

Well, you clearly have.

Blocking you now TRAndmaiden

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:07

mirax · 09/02/2023 19:59

@ismu Last try. No one is being unkind to you. You came in here with accusations of bigotry and hate which are very serious accusations but let's leave that out. Then you made some statements which are equivalent to flat earth 'science' and you are being challenged on that. That is all.

@mirax no, I'm not making any claims equal to flat earth science. I've said that on this board understanding of sex and gender is skewed by bigotry against trans people.
It's nice to get an explanation of gametes etc. (as if I was completely uneducated ) but leaving DSD out of this is very convenient.
In the legal sense, people can change sex.
Sex and gender are closely linked and in fact in the case of children with DSD, they are encouraged to make their own decisions around this and self ID.
Despite objections there will be technological advances which will allow anyone to have a baby, whether these will be ethical is another matter. Cloning has already been mentioned. Things that were impossible in the 70s and 80s are routine IVF now so I have confidence this will change.

WickedSerious · 09/02/2023 20:07

Happylittlechicken · 09/02/2023 17:22

So go on @ismu, how do these mythical people change sex? Are you saying that a male will change DNA to become female? How?

Show quote history

Magic.

Cue the dreamy music........

nilsmousehammer · 09/02/2023 20:08

you want men to provide sperm but then basically get out of women's spaces.

Actually I think everyone here would be very much agreed that we really don't want any men to be producing or providing any sperm in women's spaces at all. Ever.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 20:08

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:00

@TightFistedWozerk told me to be kind

You mean this sentence:

"We are allowed to hold this belief, by law. It does not make us bigots. You are very very unkind."

I don't see TightFistedWozerk telling you to be kind there. I see Tight telling you that you are very very unkind. Which is actually pretty different.

Or was there another post you speak of?

Or was it MNHQ letting you know to stop personally attacking posters? And stop making negative generalisations about posters and the board in general?

Kucinghitam · 09/02/2023 20:09

Oh, we had Wrong Side of History!

House!

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 20:09

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:07

@mirax no, I'm not making any claims equal to flat earth science. I've said that on this board understanding of sex and gender is skewed by bigotry against trans people.
It's nice to get an explanation of gametes etc. (as if I was completely uneducated ) but leaving DSD out of this is very convenient.
In the legal sense, people can change sex.
Sex and gender are closely linked and in fact in the case of children with DSD, they are encouraged to make their own decisions around this and self ID.
Despite objections there will be technological advances which will allow anyone to have a baby, whether these will be ethical is another matter. Cloning has already been mentioned. Things that were impossible in the 70s and 80s are routine IVF now so I have confidence this will change.

Show quote history

People with Differences of sex develop may make a choice about GENDER. They cannot change SEX.

ICouldHaveCheckedFirst · 09/02/2023 20:11

@BellaAmorosa "... you develop a vagina because you are female, it's not that having a vagina confers femaleness on you."
Succinct and very useful explanation.

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:12

Yes @Helleofabore people with DSD have to do that because they don't have a full set of sex-related characteristics. So it comes down to how they feel.
@Kucinghitam maybe you could change your name to LaTricoteuse? Seems to be your role in here ...

Waitwhat23 · 09/02/2023 20:14

Knew I had this somewhere

Girl abducted in Galashiels appears to have been held by transwoman

BoreOfWhabylon · 09/02/2023 20:17

BellaAmorosa · 09/02/2023 19:54

FOR LURKERS:

"Intersex" is an old-fashioned and othering term. People living with DSDs are all either male or female - all DSDs are sex-specific. In the past, before sophisticated sexing techniques, a small percentage of the approximately 0.018% of babies who are born with DSDs were incorrectly thought to be the other sex because of the appearance of what seemed to be their genitals. In such cases, parents were advised to socialise their child as a boy or a girl depending on that appearance. Sometimes it became clear later on that the sex of the child had been wrongly guessed. Their sex had not changed in the meantime, it just became more obvious. (The condition that Caster Semenya has has a genetic component and is known locally as "penis at 12" because the penis only develops properly at puberty.) Some people elect to continue to present to society as the same sex in which they have been socialised, even if they are in fact the opposite sex. Those are the only cases where sex was /isassigned. Nobody assigns gender to any child.
We know the causes of DSDs. They include: nonstandard karyotypes (chromosome combinations), displacement of the SRY gene, insensitivity to certain enzymes. A karyotype is not a sex. Your chromosomes are evidence of your sex - as much as the primary and secondary sex characteristics, visual, smell and sound cues which enable humans to sex each other with close to 100% accuracy even when steps are taken to alter outward appearance.

Sex is binary and cannot be changed. It has never happened in mammals. That evolutionary possibility was closed off millions of years ago, before mammals evolved. Sexual reproduction means large gamete + small gamete = zygote -> foetus -> baby, all being well. Your sex is dictated by the SRY gene (almost always located on the Y chromosome) and it is the biological role which your phenotype plays in sexual reproduction (whether or not you choose to, or can, reproduce). The sex of a person decides which phenotype they have, and which hormones and enzymes are released in the womb and throughout their life. The hormones etc determine which sex organs will develop out of the undifferentiated tissue in a foetus and which will be suppressed. In other words, you develop a vagina because you are female, it's not that having a vagina confers femaleness on you. Having a vagina is excellent evidence of femaleness, not femaleness itself. Similarly, a wedding ring and a marriage certificate prove you are married, but if you lose your ring or burn your certificate, you are still married. It's just harder to prove that you are married. Stealing a wedding ring or forging a certificate will not change your marital status. A double mastectomy or a penile inversion make no difference to which sex you are - the breasts and penis are evidence of your sex, not your sex itself. Also note that though it's possible to remove a sex organ or characteristic, you cannot swap in a functioning version of an opposite sex organ or characteristic - because the phenotype is not set up for it. Vaginoplasty and phalloplasty do not create vaginas and penises.

There are only two sexes because sexual reproduction requires two types of gametes - small gametes and large gametes. The phenotype which is set up to produce large gametes is referred to as female and the other one is referred to as male. The development pathways of each phenotype are parallel, ie they never cross over or meet. The phenotypes resulting from these pathways may be imperfectly realised, but they are always one or the other - male or female -
because there are only two types of gamete.

Outstanding post

NecessaryScene · 09/02/2023 20:18

It's nice to get an explanation of gametes etc. (as if I was completely uneducated ) but leaving DSD out of this is very convenient.

Well, you're not arguing about the rights of people with DSDs. You're arguing about the rights of perfectly normal men without DSDs, so why would DSDs be relevant to them?

Even if you accept DSDs as an edge case (but you shouldn't - see Waitwhat23's post), but even if you did, transwomen are not an edge case. "Transwoman" is just any totally normal male who choses to adopt the label. It has no concrete meaning.

NitroNine · 09/02/2023 20:19

So strange none of the posters so furious about this discussion seem to be contributing to threads on the front page of this subforum about, eg, VAWG in the Orange Order, a politician resigning to avoid being investigated for harassment, or police VAWG. Perhaps they are very active in the feminism “chat” subforum that was demanded?

Feminism = women organising for their interests as a sex class. Males, however they identify, have no place in feminism beyond being supportive of its aims & helping implement measures that lead to them being reached. Intersectional feminism does not mean including - much less centring, as is usually the demand - male people, even if they “identify as” women.

Gender is not at all a concept the women who post here are attached to - the vast majority of us think that it is actively harmful. Gender is neither a static nor a universal concept: the socio-cultural stereotypes relied on to define masculine & feminine naturally vary according to both time & place.

Sex, however, is both real & immutable. Were that not so there would not be a bar on antenatal notification of sex in some countries, nor the horrific level of abandonment & infanticide of female babies. Sex is simply observed & recorded at birth (assigned only in a fraction of instances of DSDs) - & nobody is assigning genders.

ditalini · 09/02/2023 20:19

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:12

Yes @Helleofabore people with DSD have to do that because they don't have a full set of sex-related characteristics. So it comes down to how they feel.
@Kucinghitam maybe you could change your name to LaTricoteuse? Seems to be your role in here ...

Most people with DSDs do not have bodies the way you appear to be imagining them.

Please stop. It's really quite unpleasant whether you are doing it out of ignorance or not.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 20:21

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:12

Yes @Helleofabore people with DSD have to do that because they don't have a full set of sex-related characteristics. So it comes down to how they feel.
@Kucinghitam maybe you could change your name to LaTricoteuse? Seems to be your role in here ...

You seem to be repeating misinformation about people with medical conditions.

What part of apart from rare conditions, people’s conditions can only affect people of one sex.

And those who have the rare conditions, need additional screening to work out whether their body was formed to produce large or small gametes. No one has both ovaries and testes.

Your continued posting of misinformation is harmful to those people with those conditions.

RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 09/02/2023 20:24

Kucinghitam · 09/02/2023 20:09

Oh, we had Wrong Side of History!

House!

Dammit

im still waiting for weetabix to come up

i think my bingo sheet is faulty….its like eurovision all over again 😩

BellaAmorosa · 09/02/2023 20:25

Waitwhat23 · 09/02/2023 20:14

Knew I had this somewhere

That was what I was looking for. Now bookmarked. Thanks @Waitwhat23

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 09/02/2023 20:28

“…people with DSD have to do that because they don't have a full set of sex-related characteristics. So it comes down to how they feel.”

Where on earth are you getting this stuff? How can you possibly think that’s a generally accurate statement about people with DSDs?

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 20:28

You're arguing about the rights of perfectly normal men without DSDs, so why would DSDs be relevant to them?

I need to issue a slight correction on this bit@NecessaryScene - Ismu isn’t arguing about the rights of perfectly normal men, Ismu is arguing about the rights of sex offenders and child abductors, because the topic of THIS thread is Andrew Amy George Miller.

ScorchBeastQueen · 09/02/2023 20:30

Well now, I haven't been on mumsnet as a regular for years.

but with the odd bit of dipping my toe in here for read and seeing the shit storm and sunlight all over mainstream media (something years ago was only a dream)

imagine my surprise to see
"your on the wrong side of history" still being used! 🤣 I thought they'd given that one up a while ago.

NecessaryScene · 09/02/2023 20:38

Ismu isn’t arguing about the rights of perfectly normal men, Ismu is arguing about the rights of sex offenders and child abductors, because the topic of THIS thread is Andrew Amy George Miller.

Well, yes, true.

Obviously if you give any man the right to get into spaces women don't want them, and women are forced to keep quiet about it, and the men know that women are forced to keep quiet about it, then only the very worst of men would choose to exercise that right.

Normal men wouldn't.

Because, as I'm sure ismu would insist, most men aren't that evil. Lots are lovely.

But quite a few are nasty. And they're the ones who will gladly take the rights on offer.

As an example, for those who missed it, check out this eye-boggling interview with the Wi Spa flasher.

www.lamag.com/citythinkblog/exclusive-transgender-fugitive-who-spurred-wi-spa-riots-bares-all/

Have you considered just changing clothes in a stall or wearing a bathing suit?

It’s not for me to adapt to society at this point. Even if it’s the polite thing to do or you want me to or there’s a controversy or whatever, if nobody else is using a shower curtain or nobody else is using a swimsuit, it’s illegal to try and make me do it. Technically, and from all perspectives, I am female, and everybody agrees with that. We’re all on equal grounds under the law.

BellaAmorosa · 09/02/2023 20:42

@ICouldHaveCheckedFirst and @BoreOfWhabylon
thanks!