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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

See all MNHQ comments on this thread

Girl abducted in Galashiels appears to have been held by transwoman

1000 replies

ArabellaScott · 07/02/2023 19:27

reduxx.info/scotland-crossdressing-butcher-arrested-in-case-of-missing-child/

Only source so far, but appears to be potentially corroborated by the Sun:

www.thesun.co.uk/news/21308457/cops-search-butchers-and-forensics-scour-for-evidence/

OP posts:
Thread gallery
65
LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 09/02/2023 19:46

Imagine coming on here to loftily call women bigots … announcing that we probably won’t accept the ample evidence you can provide of new breakthroughs, because we’re so committed to our terrible narrow beliefs …

and then whipping out a chatty little popular science article from 20 bloody 19 about something completely theoretical.

And then when we chortle because this is pathetic and your whole premise is offensive, we are so horrible.

Amazing

mirax · 09/02/2023 19:46

@Ismu I rarely post but reading your posts, I suggest you desist. You are severely outclassed by the women here who have in-depth knowledge of the science you claim to know but clearly do not. Parroting internet nonsense and trans "science" that might have passed muster when trying to hoodwink 12 year olds on discord on this particular forum will just not work. I doubt you are aware enough to take this advice and would probably drag this out to another 200 posts, but I tried.

Igneococcus · 09/02/2023 19:47

I'm a geneticist/molecular biologist/biochemist @ismu I've manipulated a lot of DNA in my life and can clone in my sleep. I'm prepared to discuss any evidence you provide but you don't provide any evidence.The atuff you link to is ludicrous. I've seen more scientific understanding in young earth creationists than you show here.

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:47

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 09/02/2023 19:46

Imagine coming on here to loftily call women bigots … announcing that we probably won’t accept the ample evidence you can provide of new breakthroughs, because we’re so committed to our terrible narrow beliefs …

and then whipping out a chatty little popular science article from 20 bloody 19 about something completely theoretical.

And then when we chortle because this is pathetic and your whole premise is offensive, we are so horrible.

Amazing

I found that on Google in a two minute search. Maybe you can find something better?

Kerfuffler · 09/02/2023 19:48

You should all be begging foregivenes for being such meeeeeeeean ladies.

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 19:48

Why is it that people enter a thread and call people bigots and other names, declare themselves to have knowledge that no one else has, and denigrate posters from the start and still expect posters to be kind, and treat them with the respect that they didn’t find appropriate to post with initially?

Any moment now we will have a flounce.

What do posters resorting to this tactic expect?

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:48

Igneococcus · 09/02/2023 19:47

I'm a geneticist/molecular biologist/biochemist @ismu I've manipulated a lot of DNA in my life and can clone in my sleep. I'm prepared to discuss any evidence you provide but you don't provide any evidence.The atuff you link to is ludicrous. I've seen more scientific understanding in young earth creationists than you show here.

Are we in court? Why aren't you posting evidence? Why do I need to?

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 19:49

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:47

I found that on Google in a two minute search. Maybe you can find something better?

You are the one making the unsupported claims!

You. No one else.

Igneococcus · 09/02/2023 19:50

@NecessaryScene I'd be thrilled if we would finally see nuclear fusion, that'd be awesome, and a portable system too.

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:50

Kerfuffler · 09/02/2023 19:48

You should all be begging foregivenes for being such meeeeeeeean ladies.

I was told to be kind and in the spirit of the site....

Rainbowshit · 09/02/2023 19:51

"Are we in court? Why aren't you posting evidence? Why do I need to?"

Because you are the one making outlandish claims.

NecessaryScene · 09/02/2023 19:51

Why do I need to?

Because you're the one making positive existence claims. To claim that "X can Y" all you need to do is demonstrate one example of X doing Y.

Disproving "X can't Y" would be the easiest job in world if that statement was wrong.

But as you surely realise the best you can manage is to try to redefine X and Y to construct a true statement, without changing anyone's actual knowledge of reality.

LemonJuiceFromConcentrate · 09/02/2023 19:53

Well no, @ismu, I wouldn’t be able to find anything “better” because it doesn’t exist — that’s my entire point.

But you said, or certainly implied, that you knew of loads of good evidence for your earlier statements. So why not show us that?

Igneococcus · 09/02/2023 19:53

Because you are making the claim that sex is mutable which is against our current understanding of mammalian biology, so you have to provide the evidence, that is how it works, and if you had the faintest idea of how science works then you would know that this evidence will be challenged and questioned. If you don't like that you should stay out of science discussions.

BellaAmorosa · 09/02/2023 19:54

FOR LURKERS:

"Intersex" is an old-fashioned and othering term. People living with DSDs are all either male or female - all DSDs are sex-specific. In the past, before sophisticated sexing techniques, a small percentage of the approximately 0.018% of babies who are born with DSDs were incorrectly thought to be the other sex because of the appearance of what seemed to be their genitals. In such cases, parents were advised to socialise their child as a boy or a girl depending on that appearance. Sometimes it became clear later on that the sex of the child had been wrongly guessed. Their sex had not changed in the meantime, it just became more obvious. (The condition that Caster Semenya has has a genetic component and is known locally as "penis at 12" because the penis only develops properly at puberty.) Some people elect to continue to present to society as the same sex in which they have been socialised, even if they are in fact the opposite sex. Those are the only cases where sex was /isassigned. Nobody assigns gender to any child.
We know the causes of DSDs. They include: nonstandard karyotypes (chromosome combinations), displacement of the SRY gene, insensitivity to certain enzymes. A karyotype is not a sex. Your chromosomes are evidence of your sex - as much as the primary and secondary sex characteristics, visual, smell and sound cues which enable humans to sex each other with close to 100% accuracy even when steps are taken to alter outward appearance.

Sex is binary and cannot be changed. It has never happened in mammals. That evolutionary possibility was closed off millions of years ago, before mammals evolved. Sexual reproduction means large gamete + small gamete = zygote -> foetus -> baby, all being well. Your sex is dictated by the SRY gene (almost always located on the Y chromosome) and it is the biological role which your phenotype plays in sexual reproduction (whether or not you choose to, or can, reproduce). The sex of a person decides which phenotype they have, and which hormones and enzymes are released in the womb and throughout their life. The hormones etc determine which sex organs will develop out of the undifferentiated tissue in a foetus and which will be suppressed. In other words, you develop a vagina because you are female, it's not that having a vagina confers femaleness on you. Having a vagina is excellent evidence of femaleness, not femaleness itself. Similarly, a wedding ring and a marriage certificate prove you are married, but if you lose your ring or burn your certificate, you are still married. It's just harder to prove that you are married. Stealing a wedding ring or forging a certificate will not change your marital status. A double mastectomy or a penile inversion make no difference to which sex you are - the breasts and penis are evidence of your sex, not your sex itself. Also note that though it's possible to remove a sex organ or characteristic, you cannot swap in a functioning version of an opposite sex organ or characteristic - because the phenotype is not set up for it. Vaginoplasty and phalloplasty do not create vaginas and penises.

There are only two sexes because sexual reproduction requires two types of gametes - small gametes and large gametes. The phenotype which is set up to produce large gametes is referred to as female and the other one is referred to as male. The development pathways of each phenotype are parallel, ie they never cross over or meet. The phenotypes resulting from these pathways may be imperfectly realised, but they are always one or the other - male or female -
because there are only two types of gamete.

mirax · 09/02/2023 19:54

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:48

Are we in court? Why aren't you posting evidence? Why do I need to?

Because you made an incredible claim about human reproduction and said that you had the science to back it up. First rule of debate. Have you any idea what the scientific method is?

TheBiologyStupid · 09/02/2023 19:54

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 19:49

You are the one making the unsupported claims!

You. No one else.

Indeed! Hitchens's razor applies: ""What can be asserted without evidence can also be dismissed without evidence". Similarly, since ismu is making extraordinary claims s/he needs to provide extraordinary evidence (and not "extraordinary" in the sense that their evidence so far has been!)

Helleofabore · 09/02/2023 19:54

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:50

I was told to be kind and in the spirit of the site....

Who by?

We just said you needed to stop making unfounded accusations and throwing slurs.

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:57

@Helleofabore you're claiming that it's impossible to change sex, I'm disagreeing based on an understanding of sex as linked to gender and in the legal sense.
I'm sure the dna specialist will be able to demonstrate that all people have either xx or xy chromosomes. Forever. And that these characteristics are externally displayed. No?
I've seen you argue on here that all trans women are forever males and therefore a danger to women. I disagree with this.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 19:58

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:47

I found that on Google in a two minute search. Maybe you can find something better?

Should’ve spent 5 minutes looking for something better.

mirax · 09/02/2023 19:59

@ismu Last try. No one is being unkind to you. You came in here with accusations of bigotry and hate which are very serious accusations but let's leave that out. Then you made some statements which are equivalent to flat earth 'science' and you are being challenged on that. That is all.

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 20:00

ismu · 09/02/2023 19:57

@Helleofabore you're claiming that it's impossible to change sex, I'm disagreeing based on an understanding of sex as linked to gender and in the legal sense.
I'm sure the dna specialist will be able to demonstrate that all people have either xx or xy chromosomes. Forever. And that these characteristics are externally displayed. No?
I've seen you argue on here that all trans women are forever males and therefore a danger to women. I disagree with this.

Chromosomal abnormalities are (sadly) associated with infertility so we won’t be getting any babies via THAT interpretation of human sex.

ismu · 09/02/2023 20:00

@TightFistedWozerk told me to be kindBear

Waitwhat23 · 09/02/2023 20:03

I'm always a bit baffled by people who make claims and then utterly refuse to provide evidence to back up those claims, even going so far as to sneer at those who do provide evidence for their claims.

It boils down to 'because I said so' and comes across very much as Kevin the teenager.

BellaAmorosa · 09/02/2023 20:03

ShireWifeofNigelFarage · 09/02/2023 19:58

Should’ve spent 5 minutes looking for something better.

@ShireWifeofNigelFarage
😂😂

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