Page 9 | Sunak: "I know what a woman is – an adult human female"

lechiffre55 · 03/02/2023 09:25

@DarkOphelia
I found your posts on this thread very interesting thank you. I agree with your thoughts.

BellaAmorosa · 03/02/2023 09:25

Theeyeballsinthesky · 03/02/2023 08:10

If it’s so straight forward to say women are adult human females, why aren’t Labour saying it?

if Labour are the party that cares about women, how can they implement pro women policies when they don’t know what a woman is & can’t measure the impact because their stats will include women & men who say they are women?

if Labour are pro women why are they happy to allow programmes designed to improve women’s representation in politics to be taken by men?

if Labour are pro women how are they ok with women’s refuges and rape support groups including men?

if Labour are pro women why do they allow one of their own female MPs to be bullied by their own party?

if Labour is so pro women how is it LRM has not had the whip removed fjr his behaviour in the HoC?

If Labour is so pro women how come David lammy was allowed ti call us rights hoarding dinosaurs?

if Labour are so much better for women how is it that even now with everything that’s happened they still can’t stand up and say “women are adult human females’?

🙌🙌

TrollMunter · 03/02/2023 09:25

Of course he’s said this. It’s a clear vote winner and position for the majority of possible Tory voters. With Starmer I’d imagine his demographic is more split. As people become more educated as to what trans actually means and its implications I expect that demographic to swing towards biology as the greater consideration over gender. Whatever ‘gender’ actually is.

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 09:28

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 09:15

Do you have any thoughts about the substance of my post or do you just have a bit of personal excitement about terminology?

Show quote history

Oh. So the substance of your post wasn’t about trying to shame others with your usage of terminology?

Or to position women who are commenting with support that a PM who has made it clear that he understands that women need a clear definition, as not being engaged with other aspects of feminism.

Because ‘the substance’ of your post may be clear in your mind, but it really is debatable. There is one clear sentence in two paragraphs that seem to indicate a wish to focus on feminist issues.

The bulk of your post focuses on attempting to shame posters who disagree with you. Not one thing in your post indicates an intention to engage even neutrally with any discussion here.

lechiffre55 · 03/02/2023 09:29

Lammy calling women rights hoarding dinosaurs and the response of feminists running around London in dinosaur costumes carrying brightly coloured eggs is something I shall cherish to my grave :) One perfect moment in a time of madness.

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2023 09:32

lechiffre55 · 03/02/2023 09:29

Lammy calling women rights hoarding dinosaurs and the response of feminists running around London in dinosaur costumes carrying brightly coloured eggs is something I shall cherish to my grave :) One perfect moment in a time of madness.

Ha did they I missed that, very good

If Lammy’s revolting misogynistic views cost his party as Corbyn’s antisemitism did I’ll be glad.

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 09:33

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 09:28

Oh. So the substance of your post wasn’t about trying to shame others with your usage of terminology?

Or to position women who are commenting with support that a PM who has made it clear that he understands that women need a clear definition, as not being engaged with other aspects of feminism.

Because ‘the substance’ of your post may be clear in your mind, but it really is debatable. There is one clear sentence in two paragraphs that seem to indicate a wish to focus on feminist issues.

The bulk of your post focuses on attempting to shame posters who disagree with you. Not one thing in your post indicates an intention to engage even neutrally with any discussion here.

Show quote history

For clarity, that is my thoughts about the substance of [your] post and I guess if added to my bit of personal excitement about terminology?

What kind of reaction did you expect from your post?

PronounssheRa · 03/02/2023 09:33

Geeds · 03/02/2023 09:20

Surely most notable would be what the Labour shadow justice secretary said? As he would be the one in charge of making decisions on things such as prisons?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/so-what-is-labours-position-on-transwomen-in-prisons/

Show quote history

That's the issue isn't it Labour have no coherent position on any of this.

We all know know that the conviction rate for rape is woeful. So its easy to say male rapists should be in a mans prison. But what about all those other single sex spaces that keep women safe from those rapist who have never been charged or convicted, or rapists that have served their time.

Labour don't even talk about single sex spaces and more they call them safe spaces.

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 09:34

Merrymouse · 03/02/2023 08:25

Nobody thinks Conservative policy has become pro women. They are kicking a ball into an open goal. However it is a move forward from the Miller Mordaunt years.

Meanwhile @LemonBounce , please could you explain how a coherent policy can explain why Isla Bryson shouldn’t be in a male prison, if sex can’t be mentioned.

Remember the rapes happened in 2016 and 2019, he wasn’t legally classed as a rapist until 2023, and he was, per policy, in a woman’s prison until the Scottish government became embarrassed.

Whatever Sunak’s intentions, he is at least able to speak clearly.

Show quote history

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few.

Yes there should be more investment in prisons and the justice system to prevent crime.

I just can't help but hear that Trump speech about when Mexico sends immigrants they're 'not sending their best' do you know the one I mean?

whereaw · 03/02/2023 09:34

Great post @lechiffre55

FixTheBone · 03/02/2023 09:35

escapingthecity · 02/02/2023 21:48

I know it's a Mail link but I've not seen it up anywhere else yet:

Rishi Sunak wades into trans debate saying 'biological sex matters'
mol.im/a/11707375

Glad to see him taking a clear position.

Pretty naive in my opinion.

I'm pretty sure most politicians will say whatever they think will win votes.

I'd bet my house that his position would be very much more on the fence if there was a sufficient media visibility from whatever trans-rights groups decided to take issue with him saying it.

Helleofabore · 03/02/2023 09:37

lechiffre55 · 03/02/2023 09:18

I'm of the older generation and during my lifetime I have voted for every major party in the UK and also some of the less major parties with people wearing giant top hats and buckets on their heads. I am the exact opposite of someone who is proud to have voted for the same party their entire lives irrespective of how that party performs. I am not wedded to any party.
I see two main types of people posting in this thread. Those who are glad Sunak has said women are "adult human females" because it hopefully means this shitshow is one step closer to being over, and those who are angry about it.
Just because Sunak said something positive doesn't mean you have to vote for the Tories. It's a single issue. To me it's a very important issue, probably my most important. I think it's great Sunak said what he said.
The people who are upset at what Sunak said, or who are upset because people here like what Sunak said in my opinion are upset because a Tory PM said it. I'm seeing denial, bitterness, and defensiveness. I bet if the Labour and Tory positions on this were reversed and Starmer had said "adult human female" while Sunak mumbled bollocks and tried to weasle words his way around the issue that the people who are unhappy at Sunak now would be cock a hoop over the moon at Starmer saying the same thing.
I think some are you are angry that it's Sunak who is supporting women's rights and you can't stand that the Tories are clearly doing much better on this issue than Labour. It must be very difficult for you to square the circle mentally.
Life would be so much easier for all of us if Labour were supporting women's rights and the Tories were giving them away. Voting would be a no brainer. I think almost everyone here would be in agreement. I know for me I wouldn't even have to think about who to vote for. It would be so blindingly obvious.
But the reality is that it's the Tories who give me the most hope on this topic. I literally don't care if they are only doing it for votes because at least they are showing they recognise it's a big problem. The Tories are demonstrating that they are listening. Labour clearly don't give a fuck about women on this topic. Again and again from the top to the bottom they have not the slightest hesitation sacrificing women's rights on the alter of progressivism, and I think they do it so easily because they take women for granted. Like the left always seems to do, they consider themselves to "own" particular groups of people to the extent that they owe those people nothing. Labour don't care what women think because they believe to their core that women will vote for them no matter what. Labour take women's votes for granted. I think this is a HUGE mistake. Labour are refusing, not just a bit deaf, but actively refusing to listen to women's issues on this matter.
I think Labour are in for a real shock at the next election. I think they have squandered the largest poll lead in living memory for a badly concieved ill thought out progressive knee jerk trendy policy that was arrived at only because any debate about the issue, or opposition to it was verboten. They've turned an easy victory into fight. There's still a few years left before the next general election. At the current rate of shambolic progress Labour could lose yet another one, again. And if they do we'll get the same old tired "we need to reflect on what went wrong". Reflect now before you lose you muppets. Do the soul searching, head scratching, arse sniffing, and "what could we have done different"ing right now. Open your eyes and ears and listen to the public you want to govern.
Let us have both a Labour victory, and be happy not afraid that Labour won. How can you hope to govern the UK when the words "adult human female" are so far out of your grasp?

Thank you lechiffre

ResisterRex · 03/02/2023 09:37

Great post @lechiffre55

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 09:38

Merrymouse · 03/02/2023 08:29

@LemonBounce , while this is a private forum, if your assertion is that gender critical feminists have never done anything to support women, I would start by learning more about Julie Bindel’s decades of campaigning for victims of domestic abuse.

Just feels a shame all this energy going into an area actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group.
There are so many issues around women's rights that would have a greater impact for women.

Beowulfa · 03/02/2023 09:38

lechiffre55 · 03/02/2023 09:18

I'm of the older generation and during my lifetime I have voted for every major party in the UK and also some of the less major parties with people wearing giant top hats and buckets on their heads. I am the exact opposite of someone who is proud to have voted for the same party their entire lives irrespective of how that party performs. I am not wedded to any party.
I see two main types of people posting in this thread. Those who are glad Sunak has said women are "adult human females" because it hopefully means this shitshow is one step closer to being over, and those who are angry about it.
Just because Sunak said something positive doesn't mean you have to vote for the Tories. It's a single issue. To me it's a very important issue, probably my most important. I think it's great Sunak said what he said.
The people who are upset at what Sunak said, or who are upset because people here like what Sunak said in my opinion are upset because a Tory PM said it. I'm seeing denial, bitterness, and defensiveness. I bet if the Labour and Tory positions on this were reversed and Starmer had said "adult human female" while Sunak mumbled bollocks and tried to weasle words his way around the issue that the people who are unhappy at Sunak now would be cock a hoop over the moon at Starmer saying the same thing.
I think some are you are angry that it's Sunak who is supporting women's rights and you can't stand that the Tories are clearly doing much better on this issue than Labour. It must be very difficult for you to square the circle mentally.
Life would be so much easier for all of us if Labour were supporting women's rights and the Tories were giving them away. Voting would be a no brainer. I think almost everyone here would be in agreement. I know for me I wouldn't even have to think about who to vote for. It would be so blindingly obvious.
But the reality is that it's the Tories who give me the most hope on this topic. I literally don't care if they are only doing it for votes because at least they are showing they recognise it's a big problem. The Tories are demonstrating that they are listening. Labour clearly don't give a fuck about women on this topic. Again and again from the top to the bottom they have not the slightest hesitation sacrificing women's rights on the alter of progressivism, and I think they do it so easily because they take women for granted. Like the left always seems to do, they consider themselves to "own" particular groups of people to the extent that they owe those people nothing. Labour don't care what women think because they believe to their core that women will vote for them no matter what. Labour take women's votes for granted. I think this is a HUGE mistake. Labour are refusing, not just a bit deaf, but actively refusing to listen to women's issues on this matter.
I think Labour are in for a real shock at the next election. I think they have squandered the largest poll lead in living memory for a badly concieved ill thought out progressive knee jerk trendy policy that was arrived at only because any debate about the issue, or opposition to it was verboten. They've turned an easy victory into fight. There's still a few years left before the next general election. At the current rate of shambolic progress Labour could lose yet another one, again. And if they do we'll get the same old tired "we need to reflect on what went wrong". Reflect now before you lose you muppets. Do the soul searching, head scratching, arse sniffing, and "what could we have done different"ing right now. Open your eyes and ears and listen to the public you want to govern.
Let us have both a Labour victory, and be happy not afraid that Labour won. How can you hope to govern the UK when the words "adult human female" are so far out of your grasp?

Great post lechiffre.

I've never voted Labour or Conservative. Why are Labour making it so hard for me to consider them?

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2023 09:39

Labour would have to take out many MPs who believe in gender lies to get close to being clear on this.

I can’t see them doing it. It’s too entrenched and they just had to do it with antisemitism.

Signalbox · 03/02/2023 09:41

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few.

That's what safeguarding is though isn't it? Most men and transwomen are not rapists or sexual predators but some are and policy should be designed based on the few who are. This isn't demonisation of men or transwomen, it's safeguarding.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 09:44

If you have not seen this yet, please consider signing and this petition to update the Equality Act to make clear the protected characteristic ‘sex ‘ is biological sex.

The mandatory response after the first 10,000 signatures was to say everything is fine as it is - which is not true.

The biological meaning which is the sine qua non of ‘sex ‘ has been muddied and corrupted. It has to be made completely clear in the EA if the EA is to be able to protect women’s sex based rights.

Rishi needs to back up his words by updating the Equality Act to make clear the protected characteristic ‘sex ‘ is biological sex.
⬇️

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

CoffeeRightNow · 03/02/2023 09:45

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few

Safeguarding women via single sex spaces doesn’t demonise men. It doesn’t say ‘all men are rapists’. It is an acknowledgement that in order to keep women safe from the rogue predatory man, no men can share those spaces.

This is honestly safeguarding 101. It really is! And the fact TRAs think they are special and the rules shouldn’t apply to them is fucking disturbing.

PronounssheRa · 03/02/2023 09:45

Signalbox · 03/02/2023 09:41

That's easy. General policy shouldn't be designed based on a couple of weird cases. They aren't representative of a whole group of people and that group shouldn't be demonised because of the actions of a few.

That's what safeguarding is though isn't it? Most men and transwomen are not rapists or sexual predators but some are and policy should be designed based on the few who are. This isn't demonisation of men or transwomen, it's safeguarding.

Quite. The DBS system was radically overhauled after the murders of Holly and Jessica in Soham. That's just one example.

KangarooKenny · 03/02/2023 09:46

ResisterRex · 03/02/2023 09:37

Great post @lechiffre55

Yes, great post.
Its a shame some people can’t be happy about it just because they don’t vote for that party.
Its one small but important movement towards sanity.

BellaAmorosa · 03/02/2023 09:49

MarshaBradyo · 03/02/2023 09:39

Labour would have to take out many MPs who believe in gender lies to get close to being clear on this.

I can’t see them doing it. It’s too entrenched and they just had to do it with antisemitism.

Yes, you get the feeling it is an ideological stance for so many in the party that Starmer can't tell the truth without splitting the party. Assuming he even wanted to.

@lechiffre55
Top posting!

@LemonBounce
The point is not that there aren't other important feminist issues, it's that this issue is fundamental to resolving all the others.

Ohifyouinsist · 03/02/2023 09:50

LemonBounce · 03/02/2023 09:38

Just feels a shame all this energy going into an area actively trying to reduce the rights of a minority group.
There are so many issues around women's rights that would have a greater impact for women.

Show quote history

No, you've got that the wrong way round. The energy is going into maintaining the hard won rights of the majority of the the population. Single sex spaces are essential for the safety, dignity and comfort of women and girls.

If we don't have the most basic safeguarding for women and girls, we have nothing.

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 09:51

lechiffre55 · Today 09:18

Life would be so much easier for all of us if Labour were supporting women's rights and the Tories were giving them away. Voting would be a no brainer. I think almost everyone here would be in agreement. I know for me I wouldn't even have to think about who to vote for. It would be so blindingly obvious.

But the reality is that it's the Tories who give me the most hope on this topic. I literally don't care if they are only doing it for votes because at least they are showing they recognise it's a big problem. The Tories are demonstrating that they are listening. Labour clearly don't give a fuck about women on this topic. Again and again from the top to the bottom they have not the slightest hesitation sacrificing women's rights on the alter of progressivism, and I think they do it so easily because they take women for granted. Like the left always seems to do, they consider themselves to "own" particular groups of people to the extent that they owe those people nothing. Labour don't care what women think because they believe to their core that women will vote for them no matter what. Labour take women's votes for granted. I think this is a HUGE mistake. Labour are refusing, not just a bit deaf, but actively refusing to listen to women's issues on this matter.

Thank you lechiffre, you are speaking for me too. You have taken the words from my mouth, particularly in this part.

DarkDayforMN · 03/02/2023 09:51

They aren't representative of a whole group of people

The modal trans prisoner is a sex offender. Sex offenders absolutely are representative of trans prisoners, not a “weird case” at all.