Sunak: "I know what a woman is – an adult human female"

[escapingthecity]

I know it's a Mail link but I've not seen it up anywhere else yet:

Rishi Sunak wades into trans debate saying 'biological sex matters'
mol.im/a/11707375

Glad to see him taking a clear position.

I don't think it shows he is necessarily arsed about women, but I do think it's a good step forward that the PM has openly said what the vast, vast majority of the population know to be true but haven't been able to say without being lambasted as a bigot or whatever else. I don't think it's spin either, as I said most people know it's true, it shouldn't be a scandalous view and has only been made so by some threatening and violent men on social media.

Too busy briefing against Rosie Duffield.

I'm desperate to understand why Labour have ended up in the position they are in and who has influenced them. It doesn't make any sense, when they talk about this they look foolish at best, liars at worst.

It simply should not be a statement you can use for political purposes. Any more than ‘today is Friday’ should be subject to political debate.

It’s utterly ridiculous that we are in a position where ‘a woman is an adult human female’ is up for any political debate.

You are right it shouldn’t be up for debate. But because of the GRA and sex in the EA now meaning “legal sex” and Labour, Greens, LDs and SNP constantly spouting TWAW and calling women who disagree transphobic/ homophobic /racist it has become the subject of political debate.

This is just push-back and it’s long overdue. Labour are probably going to win the next GE and wouldn’t it be nice to see them become a bit more grounded in reality before that happens?

It's worth remembering that the British electorate have an acute sense of something being "not on" and it tends to sway their perspectives far more than typical party political positions.

Last election, Labour canvassers were quietly reporting that a lot of people on the doorstep were unhappy about the anti-semitism issue. And this was in areas of the country where there's virtually no Jewish people whatsoever.

Labour is attempting to circumvent the British concept of fair play and it's virtually impossible to do that. Nobody out there thinks men should be in women's prisons and on women's hospital wards, or women's changing rooms, or in women's sports - - because that's "not on". It's not fair play. And that is a rock on which Labour's boat will smash.

What is concerning is that they don't seem to realise this, and that suggests they don't know the electorate anymore. You cannot win an election as Labour and hold such a fundamentally anti-British position as male sex offenders in women's prisons.

Well said. Lets see what he is actually going to do, to improve the lives of women here.

Glad to see he knows which class of people his parties horrendous austerity cuts have screwed over most the last decade. I’m sure he’s sure he’ll still get votes from lots of us though, as he can say the magic line of ‘women don’t have penises’ and suddenly expect all the women who agree will forget that his party is responsible for the deaths of lots of them!

im sure someone will be along soon to answer the questions I posted previously about labours stance on women's rights rather than just turning up to tell us we’re stupid

Lets see what he is actually going to do, to improve the lives of women here.

First you need to be able to explain what this group of people called ‘women’ have in common. At the moment Labour can’t do that.

Lord Falconer’s recent performance demonstrates exactly how little regard the party currently has for women’s issues. He couldn’t even be bothered to check the law he had been responsible for implementing.

That does not mean that I would vote Conservative after the shambles of the last few years, but please don’t pretend Labour have a coherent policy on women.

I admire your optimism!

I'd be looking to hire fewer racist women to work for me.

If it's already been said, apologies but the last time I heard anyone from Labour (excluding RD) on this, it was that Self i-d was the party line. I've a vague feeling they softened this to 'the law needs changing' to make it easier for transpeople.....

I had always assumed this stance was to pander to the student vote who were heavily into critical race and queer theory but I believe changes have been happening and whilst labour has pandered to the student vote, it has pandered to the Student Union vote - these are not the same things

Quite!@Lentilweaver

Get the picnic blanket and nibbles out because you'll be waiting a long time.

I think many on this thread have a pretty simplistic view of how electoral politics works. Labour has a gigantic poll lead due to the Tories delivering absolutely nothing in ten years apart from the economic folly of Brexit. Starmer keeping his mouth shut on hot button social issues, might be infuriating for the very small percentage (let’s say 5% of voters) who care a lot about said issue. But an extremely small number of voters will vote for party X because party Y didn’t say anything or was a bit unclear. As soon as Labour says ANYTHING about trans debate (or insert other controversial issue here) the Tories and Tory press will see it as an opportunity to revive their woeful chances of re-election and spin the heck out of it for weeks or probably months on end. For Labour that would risk a loosing of support among centrist type voters and among 20 somethings who might instead look to the Greens/Lib Dems. Say many things about Starmer but he isn’t an idiot. He won’t get dragged into a slanging match with the Tories and the Tories abysmal economic legacy will do for them. He just needs to sit back and watch. That’s how you win elections.

The anti semitism is similar

Labour endorses David Lammy who calls us rights hoarding dinosaurs

After the struggles we’ve had as a class to get where we are.

Only when it’s said about women do they smugly look away. Try saying it about another group who is in the minority and see what happens. Utter idiots who should not be in power at any point.

This is it, @ShyDinosaur. It's that fundamental. Comparable to believing in democracy and the rule of law.
If you can't even define women, recognise them as a class of human being, how do you argue that they are being particularly disadvantaged or discriminated against economically and socially? How do you protect our rights?

Do you have any thoughts about the substance of my post or do you just have a bit of personal excitement about terminology?

To put it more bluntly - the Tories are done. Sunak would say anything at this point to gain a couple of points in the polls, while Starmer needn’t respond to anything. Though I’m sure unlike Johnson he will at least have the balls to do interviews and debates prior to the next election, even though he’d still win without showing Sunak up to be the empty puppet of the financial elite that he is.

Labour have said plenty about this debate, they aren't sitting back and watching

Most topical is Lisa Nandy saying a male rapist should be sent to a female prison if they identify as a women.

mobile.twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1442783035389325313

You might say that Starmer’s electoral strategy takes a rather dim view of the electorate’s ability to see past spin, but the evidence of Brexit (with polls showing about 30% of Briext voter’s NOW recognising the folly of shooting our GDP in the foot) would suggest his dim view is quite justified.

I'm of the older generation and during my lifetime I have voted for every major party in the UK and also some of the less major parties with people wearing giant top hats and buckets on their heads. I am the exact opposite of someone who is proud to have voted for the same party their entire lives irrespective of how that party performs. I am not wedded to any party.
I see two main types of people posting in this thread. Those who are glad Sunak has said women are "adult human females" because it hopefully means this shitshow is one step closer to being over, and those who are angry about it.
Just because Sunak said something positive doesn't mean you have to vote for the Tories. It's a single issue. To me it's a very important issue, probably my most important. I think it's great Sunak said what he said.
The people who are upset at what Sunak said, or who are upset because people here like what Sunak said in my opinion are upset because a Tory PM said it. I'm seeing denial, bitterness, and defensiveness. I bet if the Labour and Tory positions on this were reversed and Starmer had said "adult human female" while Sunak mumbled bollocks and tried to weasle words his way around the issue that the people who are unhappy at Sunak now would be cock a hoop over the moon at Starmer saying the same thing.
I think some are you are angry that it's Sunak who is supporting women's rights and you can't stand that the Tories are clearly doing much better on this issue than Labour. It must be very difficult for you to square the circle mentally.
Life would be so much easier for all of us if Labour were supporting women's rights and the Tories were giving them away. Voting would be a no brainer. I think almost everyone here would be in agreement. I know for me I wouldn't even have to think about who to vote for. It would be so blindingly obvious.
But the reality is that it's the Tories who give me the most hope on this topic. I literally don't care if they are only doing it for votes because at least they are showing they recognise it's a big problem. The Tories are demonstrating that they are listening. Labour clearly don't give a fuck about women on this topic. Again and again from the top to the bottom they have not the slightest hesitation sacrificing women's rights on the alter of progressivism, and I think they do it so easily because they take women for granted. Like the left always seems to do, they consider themselves to "own" particular groups of people to the extent that they owe those people nothing. Labour don't care what women think because they believe to their core that women will vote for them no matter what. Labour take women's votes for granted. I think this is a HUGE mistake. Labour are refusing, not just a bit deaf, but actively refusing to listen to women's issues on this matter.
I think Labour are in for a real shock at the next election. I think they have squandered the largest poll lead in living memory for a badly concieved ill thought out progressive knee jerk trendy policy that was arrived at only because any debate about the issue, or opposition to it was verboten. They've turned an easy victory into fight. There's still a few years left before the next general election. At the current rate of shambolic progress Labour could lose yet another one, again. And if they do we'll get the same old tired "we need to reflect on what went wrong". Reflect now before you lose you muppets. Do the soul searching, head scratching, arse sniffing, and "what could we have done different"ing right now. Open your eyes and ears and listen to the public you want to govern.
Let us have both a Labour victory, and be happy not afraid that Labour won. How can you hope to govern the UK when the words "adult human female" are so far out of your grasp?

Labour have said enough on the subject to be honest, none of it good. Their proposals for the NHS are ludicrous as well, wouldn't it be nice to have a credible opposition at this point, labour should be walking miles ahead in the polls at this point with ease and yet they somehow are still managing to not look like a much better alternative to this, possibly the worst government in recent memory.

It’s been an extremely lonely time for left wing feminists (or left wing women who are not fantasists!). I have voted Labour all my life, from Blair to Corbyn. I have always towed the party line, even when there were deep rooted issues within the party and my principles felt compromised. I have always been of the ‘get/keep the Tories out’ mentality.

But I will not vote for Labour unless Starmer comes out with some clear messaging on this issue, as Sunak has done. I will not. I cannot.

If you can’t tell me what a woman is, you don’t get this woman’s vote. If you won’t stand up for my rights and for safeguarding children because you don’t think it’s an important enough issue to win votes, you surely won’t get mine.

Surely most notable would be what the Labour shadow justice secretary said? As he would be the one in charge of making decisions on things such as prisons?

www.spectator.co.uk/article/so-what-is-labours-position-on-transwomen-in-prisons/

@Narwhalll
point, labour should be walking miles ahead in the polls at this point with ease

Labour are 20-25 points ahead in the polls. Good news for the majority who believe that more years of Conservative rule is not a option.