ScrollingLeaves · 06/02/2023 12:30

Your letter is excellent
imo and I so admire you for taking this on. Good luck with it.

I noticed the schools own policy (copied below) for special educational needs or SEND has also omitted discrimination
on grounds of sex.

Sex discrimination can happen in schools say if a little boy were told by girls he shouldn’t play in the pretend kitchen, or

boys were belittling girls especially on a cultural basis, or even if a teacher were prejudiced against boys as always naughty. And girls are as you say vulnerable to FGM due to sex.

Ethnicity and religion in themselves involve beliefs which may lead to discrimination on grounds of sex. It is at root of FGM. They shouldn’t leave sex out of their own policy.

From your own safeguarding policy, you state that "We give special consideration to children who:

have special educational needs or disabilities (SEND) or health conditions
may experience discrimination due to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender identification or sexuality
have English as an additional language (EAL)
are at risk of FGM, sexual exploitation, forced marriage, or radicalisation

ScrollingLeaves · 06/02/2023 13:56

Veb, and everyone,
I thought this article in the Times is interesting and really shows how important “sex” is and how it is the last thing that should be removed from school policies.

This is about the huge influence of Andrew Tate on boys, and the toxic masculinity which tends to be tolerated as “ boys will be boys” in schools, and which is often targeted at girls (as a sex) in the form of sexual harassment towards girls.

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

ChristinaXYZ · 06/02/2023 21:46

For anyone else in this position once you've gone through a school's complaints proceedure you can take issues to both Ofsted and the DfE - particularly if they are whole school like OP's poster situation, rather than pertaining to just your child.

www.gov.uk/complain-to-dfe

complain.ofsted.gov.uk/

JacquelinePot · 06/02/2023 22:43

I saw this on another thread - could it apply to schools?

https://www.equalityhumanrights.com/en/our-work/blogs/using-section-23-agreements-help-organisations-improve-their-approach-equality

Original poster

Vebrithien · 07/02/2023 07:08

IT IS SENT!

Vebrithien · 2023-02-01T12:51:53+00:00

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread! https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552 Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me. I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send. Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender. I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex. Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on. I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state. Thank you all again!

😬

OP posts:

SinnerBoy · 07/02/2023 07:30

Hurray! Keeps us informed about how you are next fobbed off!

Original poster

Vebrithien · 07/02/2023 08:30

I know.

Doubt I'll hear anything before half term.

I did also number my paragraphs/concerns, but the formatting didn't copy across when I pasted into MN.

OP posts:

Original poster

Vebrithien · 07/02/2023 08:34

I also cc'd the Head in as well.

OP posts:

ScrollingLeaves · 07/02/2023 08:37

Vebrithien · Today 07:08

Well done for all your research then writing such a difficult letter and sending it. 👏👏👏

Emotionalsupportviper · 07/02/2023 08:50

It takes a lot of courage to stand up to this evil cult.

Well done - a beautiful letter, objective and well-written.

Original poster

Vebrithien · 07/02/2023 16:36

Aww, thanks!

OP posts:

MrsMaxDeWinter · 07/02/2023 17:14

Very well done.

HagoftheNorth · 07/02/2023 17:17

Very well done Veb and thank you again for being brave enough to take this on. V interested to hear what happens next. We’ll all be right behind you 🍰☕️

Yalz · 07/02/2023 17:33

Excellent, @Vebrithien, very well done and thank you for taking this on.

Thank you also to other posters on this thread for their practical and sensible comments.

bignosebignose · 08/02/2023 10:44

This thread has given me the final nudge to contact DS's school and ask for details of a recent lesson on this topic. I did it a couple of years ago when DD was being taught about it but allowed myself to be fobbed off with a phone call. This time I'm going to push to see the lesson materials used in class. I feel slightly ill with nerves about sending the first request.

Original poster

Vebrithien · 08/02/2023 10:58

Oh well done @bignosebignose .

I agree, it is nerve wracking.

You do have the right to know what is being taught, if you are in England.

I'd recommend looking at the Safe Schools Alliance page on advice for parents. They have some resources to use.

OP posts:

DarkOphelia · 08/02/2023 11:36

I am late to this, but I feel uncomfortable at the statement on the poster that "everyone is welcome at our school."

Actually, no. Not everyone is welcome at the school, are they? You can't just turn up and wander around, willy nilly, as a member of the public. People who have no valid reason to be at the school aren't supposed to be there.

And likewise, there's a lot of types of people who definitely are not welcome at the school: anyone on the sex offenders register, for a start.

It stands testament to the way this ideology has developed and run riot across the state and civic institutions that I immediately find the poster statement to be suspicious. It smells of slowly chiselling away at children's internal sense of what is appropriate and what is not, chipping away at boundaries, eroding safeguards.

You subject children to enough of these sentiments and what you end up with is a seven year old not reporting a strange person wandering the corridor because "everyone is welcome at our school" and the seven year old fears being told off for not being "welcoming."

ScrollingLeaves · 08/02/2023 11:50

DarkOphelia · Today 11:36
I am late to this, but I feel uncomfortable at the statement on the poster that "everyone is welcome at our school."

I agree. As a society we want to beak down prejudice, but on the other hand our ‘wiring’ to be suspicious of anything unknown or different is to keep us safe.

There was a little boy who escaped being killed by Myra Hindley because he thought there was something ‘off’ about the way she wasn’t acting the way someone normally treats a guest, so he just left.

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

ScrollingLeaves · 08/02/2023 12:29

Yes, all teachers have a DBS check because this is, precisely, to look for the ‘one bad apple’ among thousands.

And, no, everyone is not necessarily welcome.

eurochick · 08/02/2023 12:53

Very good letter. I also wonder how one is supposed to learn about sexual orientation if one is not first taught what sex is.

Adding in the point about discrimination is very helpful. Let's face it, that is in reality going to be the discrimination many of those children will face as they go through life.

Shelefttheweb · 08/02/2023 12:55

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

Wasn’t this meant to be the whole point of the named person scheme? Or is NS suggesting some other motive for the legislation to gathering information on all children in Scotland?

DarkOphelia · 08/02/2023 13:36

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

It's becoming clear that the concept of "equalities" and "inclusion" is being stretched (or queered) to cover a range of behaviours that challenge all manner of understood tenets involving protection and safety in society.

It is almost as though there is both an exoteric and an esoteric meaning to many "equalities" utterances now. That's why the phrasing stuck out to me as a red flag.

Most people who see it will only read the exoteric fluffy-bunny meaning, and think of the rainbow school family where pupils are all valued and supported. They won't see the esoteric wolf that lurks in the shadows.

Ask why the statement is not "every pupil is welcome at our school", or "every child is welcome at our school"?

Of course, the statement can't say that because that phrasing exposes the sentiment behind the statement as problematic. Every pupil or pupil cannot be welcome because the statement would then fly in the face of the school's catchment/entrance policy and cause issues if the governors felt an pupil needed support they could not provide and required referral to a specialist unit.

No, it says "everyone." And "everyone" includes adults.

It's almost like some sort of psy-op. Everyone is welcome, little Johnny, everyone. Even if you don't like them or they are mean to you or they make you feel scared.

Once you start to see these covert meanings, they are everywhere with this ideology.

Emotionalsupportviper · 08/02/2023 13:39

Princessglittery · 08/02/2023 12:23

@DarkOphelia @ScrollingLeaves you are right.

I don’t want to derail this thread but I am making a pertinent point.

I have heard a number of times in relation to self ID people saying we don’t legislate for the 1 person/the bad apples etc. RMW said something along these lines when giving evidence to the Scottish Gmt Committee.

This is untrue, we do legislate for exactly that e.g. DBS, gun laws, Health & Safety Regulations, Security etc. It’s one of the reasons the GRRA is poor legislation, it doesn’t require accurate data collection and robust processes to ensure all identities/genders a person has used in their life are automatically assessed when they apply for a DBS Certificate.

I would like to see legislation in place that requires the government and public sector to be required to collect and maintain data of all changes of name, identity, gender etc. to ensure DBS checks are as thorough as they can be.

Hear, hear.

Legislation is intended to control the few law-breakers - the law-abiding majority don't need it.

Original poster

Vebrithien · 08/02/2023 14:41

Preaching to the converted here!

Of course, I agree with you.

But, as a PP on my last thread said, my letter was going to be an A4 ream long, if I included everything I was concerned about...

OP posts:

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

IT IS SENT!