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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

OP posts:
Thread gallery
25
Redshoeblueshoe · 02/02/2023 11:38

Great cake BB

Vebrithien · 02/02/2023 14:54

Their safeguarding, inclusion and equality policies use sex.

OP posts:
MrsMaxDeWinter · 02/02/2023 15:43

Shelefttheweb · 01/02/2023 20:44

children just need to know that ‘sex ‘ is physical body and whether they are a boy or a girl

sex is not just whether they are a boy or a girl - sex is sow/boar, cock/hen, cow/bull, tib/tom, pen/cob, ewe/ram, stag/doe. It is whether you will get a apple off your tree, or a courgette off your plant, it is why we need bees and other pollinators, it is the dangers of hormones in rivers, or the temperature of a crocodile eggs, it is the feathers on a peacock and leks. It is why our banana variety is so vulnerable, and pet dogs differ. It is food production and population control. It is Afghanistan and infanticide....

This is wonderful. Do include it please @Vebrithien in your otherwise well written and clear as glass letter.

I only recently started following these threads and have often wondered about the cognitive dissonance that pretends that sex is less relevant than gender, when, without an understanding of sex differences, it becomes impossible to understand topics as varied as reproduction in the natural word all the way to human history like the Suffragettes and current affairs like the Taliban and the overturning of Roe v Wade.

Vebrithien · 02/02/2023 16:41

Well, I'm on draft number whatever, just need to add a something from @Shelefttheweb 's masterpiece, then I will be ready for another read through.

Might not be tonight though.

OP posts:
Vebrithien · 03/02/2023 08:25

Do I ask how they teach gender, other than a series of sexist stereotypes? And link the relevant DforE guidelines to how we shouldn't?

Or save for another day?

OP posts:
AmigoDogs · 03/02/2023 08:40

I mean, while you're there why not?

Is there anything in the Reindorf review
sex-matters.org/posts/freedom-of-speech/the-reindorf-review-a-wake-up-call-for-universities that might be useful? What's the bit about 'quoting the Equality Act as they would like it to be rather than it actually is'? That's one of the things No Outsiders have done as well.

HagoftheNorth · 03/02/2023 08:54

Veb, I think you’ve got a really good letter which is already quite long. I would send that, but maybe follow up later with a question about how they teach gender - unless you find putting it in the letter works better.

Alternatively, share the load - ask if one if the other supportive mums would take on this, slightly different, angle. It might be good for the school to see you’re not a lone voice

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 12:10

Please excuse this interruption, or if you have already seen it, but I thought people on this thread might be interested in this letter in ‘Transgender Trend’ by a 14 year old about gender ideology indoctrination in her secondary school which someone has posted on another thread.

www.transgendertrend.com/?cat=(id-cultural-influences-and-debate),(id-health-professionals-and-organisations

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 12:21

Your letter is about the poster with the bubble saying Gender.
You are making the point that it should say ‘Sex’.

It seems salient to go on to ask what they say to the children about what ‘gender’ means; and what and his they teach them about ‘gender reassignment’?

But,

might this be too much? You might get a clearer answer by sticking to the original idea for now. I wonder what others think?

ScrollingLeaves · 03/02/2023 12:25

Sorry, my phone is tricky. I did not mean a ? after ‘reassignment’.

”and what and how they teach them about ‘gender reassignment’”

Vebrithien · 03/02/2023 15:06

Okay, thank you. I think I will save it for another day

OP posts:
Emotionalsupportviper · 03/02/2023 17:04

Thanks for the thread alert, @Vebrithien

LittleBrownJug · 04/02/2023 13:37

Thank you for posting your excellent draft letter @Vebrithien particularly articulating so well the reasons why this matters, I’ll be cribbing that … My DD’s infant school (ages 4-7) uses ‘gender’ instead of ‘sex’ in all inclusion/ safeguarding/mental health policies & info. They’ve also emailed links as part of mental health week which include guff about “assigning yourself a gender” & suggesting looking at Stonewall’s resources. As the upper age of children is younger I’m not sure how much overt teaching there will be on this, but I’ll be taking this up with them.

ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2023 15:44

This interruption is just to make sure everyone here has seen this petition about updating the Equality Act to make clear the protected characteristic “sex” is biological, not sex as modified by a GRC or gender reassignment.

While Stonewall & similar organisations have been (for years now) quietly teaching children from 4 that either that there is no ‘sex’ only a changeable gender, or that sex means gender - unsurprisingly the word “sex” has become muddied in its meaning.

Hence the reason for this petition to make it clear.

petition.parliament.uk/petitions/623243

Vebrithien · 04/02/2023 19:00

Signed and passed on @ScrollingLeaves

Just waiting for it to creep up.

OP posts:
ScrollingLeaves · 04/02/2023 20:40

Vebrithien · Today 19:00
Signed and passed on @ScrollingLeaves

That's good news, Veb and thanks for passing it on.

Sex Matters started it to try to clear the confusion that’s crept in.

It is 78,572 now and going up steadily bit by bit, but we need 100,000 by the 20th April. You can see on the petition map, coloured to show numbers of signatures, that Scotland is much more aware of the problem than England, Wales, and Northern Ireland.

Vebrithien · 06/02/2023 08:46

Here we go. Possible final draft .

Please have a look and let me know what you think, and if there are any more typos or alternations to make.

Thank you!

OP posts:
Vebrithien · 06/02/2023 08:49

Draft final
Dear DepHead,

Thank you for your email, dated 26/01/2023.

On the 11th of January, we discussed the No Outsiders posters displayed in school, which show nine attributes or categories of people that are welcome in the school, and who are "equal". Eight of these attributes/categories are the EA 2010 protected characteristics, with their exact wording in law.
The ninth category, which in law is "sex" has been replaced with "gender", which has no current definition in law.

My first concern is that this is at odds with the 2020 Department of Education RSE guidance, which states that outside agencies and resources must be checked by the school, to ensure that they comply with the Equality Act 2010. (A)

Please see below for excerpts, references and source links.

My second concern is that No Outsiders appears to have a political agenda, as shown by the investigation by Shelley Charlesworth, hosted by Transgender Trend (B). This investigation highlights the deliberate conflation of sex and gender, as well as Andrew Moffat's involvement as a co-presenter of a paper entitled "Queering the Body: Queering Primary Education". From the communication from the external provider, to the school, I would suggest that by saying "Everytime I re-order I do consider changing the gender bubble to a sex bubble", the external provider is acknowledging that they are aware the current poster is incorrect. By asking the school "(if you) think we should change the gender bubble in future" (back to sex)", it is to be noted that the external provider has clearly devolved a final opinion of this matter to the school, as though to remove liability from themselves.

Schools have a legal duty to remain politically impartial, and must not promote partisan political views, but should offer a balanced presentation of opposing views (C). Are there any resources used in school which highlight the importance, and protected status, of biological sex? As an initial step, there should be posters on display that correctly show the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Safe Schools Alliance have produced a free, downloadable copy, as an example of best practice (D). I am aware of schools who have removed the No Outsiders posters, due to parental complaints about their inaccuracy. The inclusion of sex as a protected characteristic in the Equality Act directly addresses the issue that people can be discriminated against due to their sex

It is important that young children are taught to use clear, defined language, to describe themselves and the world around them. Sex is not just whether a child is a boy or a girl. Sex is the difference between a cow and a bull, whether you will get an apple off your tree or a courgette off your plant. Sex is why we need bees and other pollinators. In comparison, definitions of gender by Stonewall (E), the UK Government (F) and the World Health Organisation (G) are all different, and all highlight how there is a social and cultural impact on how gender is understood.
If children cannot clearly describe their world and body, it places cracks in their safeguarding, especially with the most vulnerable children. From your own safeguarding policy, you state that "We give special consideration to children who:

have special educational needs or disabilities (SEND) or health conditions
may experience discrimination due to their race, ethnicity, religion, gender identification or sexuality
have English as an additional language (EAL)
are at risk of FGM, sexual exploitation, forced marriage, or radicalisation

By conflating sex and gender, this discriminates against students with SEND and EAL, who have an exceptional requirement for clear and defined language. In your own SEND policy, it is stated that "We recognise that it is necessary to ensure that the school’s curriculum is accessible to all children" and "Particular attention is given to those who may struggle to communicate with adults." Likewise, as gender is variously defined as having a social and cultural determination, the use of gender rather than sex discriminates against students of a different race, culture or ethnicity. It also does not allow for the clear safeguarding of female children at risk of FGM.

While I agree that the messages of equality and inclusion are important and such behaviour should be encouraged in school, I feel that accurate language around this is vital for the reasons stated above.

Consequently, I would like to see the school replace the misleading No Outsiders posters either with accurate EA posters such as the one from Safe Schools Alliance linked above.
Alternatively, it may be more appropriate to use something else entirely, with a more general message of us all being equal despite our differences.

I look forward to hearing from you,

Yours,
Veb

References

A.

"When deciding on the external agencies and resources to use, you should make appropriate checks to ensure that the agencies’ approach to teaching relationships education, relationships and sex education and health education and the resources that they plan to use comply with:

the Equality Act 2010"

Source: Department for Education, Guidance; planning your relationship, sex and health education curriculum, September 2020

Link: www.gov.uk/guidance/plan-your-relationships-sex-and-health-curriculum#using-external-agencies

Last accessed on: 24/01/2023

B.

Source: No Outsiders: Queering the Primary Classroom , Transgender Trend, April 2019

Link: www.transgendertrend.com/no-outsiders-queering-primary-classroom/

Last accessed on: 28/01/2023

C.

Source:
Department for Education, Guidance; Political impartiality in schools, February 2022

Link: www.gov.uk/government/publications/political-impartiality-in-schools

Last accessed on: 28/01/2023

D.

Source: Safe Schools Alliance, Equality Act Protected Characteristics Poster

Link: safeschoolallianceuk.net/resources-2/factsheets/

Last accessed on: 28/01/2023

E.

Stonewall definition of gender; "Often expressed in terms of masculinity and femininity, gender is largely culturally determined and is assumed from the sex assigned at birth."

Source: List of TLGBTQ terms, Stonewall

Link: www.stonewall.org.uk/list-lgbtq-terms

Last accessed on: 30.01.2023

F.

UK Government definition of gender; "a social construction relating to behaviours and attributes based on labels of masculinity and femininity"

Source: What is the difference between sex and gender? Office for National Statistics, UK Government, Feb 2019

Link: www.ons.gov.uk/economy/environmentalaccounts/articles/whatisthedifferencebetweensexandgender/2019-02-21

Last accessed on: 30/01/2023

G.
WHO defninition of gender; "refers to the characteristics of women, men, girls and boys that are socially constructed. This includes norms, behaviours and roles associated with being a woman, man, girl or boy, as well as relationships with others. As a social construct, gender varies from society to society and can change over time. Gender is hierarchical and produces inequalities."

Source: Gender, Health Topics, World Health Organisation

Link: www.who.int/europe/health-topics/gender#tab=tab_1

Last accessed on: 30/01/2023

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 06/02/2023 10:20

I think that it looks very comprehensive and well written, Vebrithien.

Vebrithien · 06/02/2023 10:54

Thanks @SinnerBoy

OP posts:
Vebrithien · 06/02/2023 10:57

It feels pretty real and scary now.

Thinking about sending it tonight

OP posts:
NancyDrawed · 06/02/2023 11:22

That is an excellent letter, Veb - calm, factual, and well referenced.

It will be interesting to see what the DepH comes back with.

I wonder why she felt she had to defer to Moffatt regarding your query? I get that she thinks NO are the experts, but perhaps she is also a bit uncomfortable regarding the gender / sex confusion and wanted reassurance that she was doing what was expected?

Princessglittery · 06/02/2023 11:33

Excellent letter.

DameMaud · 06/02/2023 12:08

I agree with PPs. Excellent, thorough letter OP!

HagoftheNorth · 06/02/2023 12:13

Hi Veb, I think you’ve done a great job with the letter. My comments would be that:

a) it’s pretty long, so it would be good to go through to take out any extra words and shorten the sentences (but make sure it’s still your ‘voice’!) eg

On the11th of January, we discussed the No Outsiders posters displayed in school, which show nine attributes or categories of people that are welcome in the school, and who are "equal". Eight of these attributes/categories are the EA 2010 protected characteristics, with their exact wording in law.
The ninth category, which in law is "sex" has been replaced with "gender", . Gender which has no current definition in law.

b) it would be good to number the paragraphs, and then you can take out the ‘my first concern, my second concern’ bits, and you can keep track of your different elements in the school’s response. The next para might be

  1. My first concern is that this This is at odds with the 2020 Department of Education RSE guidance. Which states that outside Outside agencies and resources must be checked by the school, to ensure that they comply with the Equality Act 2010. (A - references below)

Please see below for excerpts, references and source links

Obviously this is just an option. I am so grateful that you are taking this on. Definitely ignore it if it’s not useful to you 💐

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