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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

Sex not gender, No Outsiders changing the Equality Act, DepHead/DSL captured

736 replies

Vebrithien · 01/02/2023 12:51

Well, here we are, with a whole new thread!

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4713725-please-help-gender-not-sex-on-a-school-protected-characteristics-poster-just-spoken-to-the-head?page=10&reply=123546552

Thank you all, so so much for the support you have given me.

I am currently working on the draft of the message I want to send.

Long story short, DD's primary school displays posters by No Outsiders, showing the 9 protected characteristics of the Equality Act. Sex as been replaced with gender.

I have raised this with the Head, the assistant Head, and the Deputy Head (DepHead, as DH just doesn't work here). I have been reassured that sex is synonymous with gender in law, and, through an email stream, No Outsiders have reassured the school that it is deliberate, gender is easier to teach children than sex, especially as some will snigger at sex.

Oh, and teaching that gender is the difference between boys and girls, it makes it easier to then explain gender reassignment later on.

I'll put the message from the DepHead and No Outsiders here, and also my reply, in its current state.

Thank you all again!

OP posts:
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dimorphism · 10/03/2023 13:36

I'm glad this meeting was so amazing, wish I could have been there!

YOU made this happen @Vebrithien - as you've discovered the forces trying to prevent women from speaking to each other are entrenched in our schools and powerful. You've overcome that. That's quite something.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 13:42

PaperCorners · Today 13:27
Go Vebrithian! And your action group. Sounds like a fantastic meeting. Stronger together and all that.

I don't know if you saw Newscast on BBC1 last night but Gillian Keegan Education Secretary was on. She was asked about RSE teaching in schools following Miriam Cates' report. Buried in her usual semi-coherent waffle was a clear statement that parents have a right to see the materials schools are using. Worth a watch

A school a reception child in my family goes to has definitely pretended to involve the parents.

All that was offered in the way of ‘involvement’, though, was an on-line meeting where the HT spoke giving a list of the teaching headings planned. Then these were posted on line.

They all look good and useful but there is no detail whatsoever about the content and the language that will be used to deliver the teaching.

This was a tick-box PR exercise only. There is no involvement.

I personally think Gillian Keegan has no place in Education.

Datun · 10/03/2023 14:11

Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 12:31

Thank you, all.

Our meeting was wonderful. 6 women, round a table, having a sensible, rational discussion. We all have different views and backgrounds, and we all listened to each other.

And, the younger children all played together.

We've decided that the first step is to send a group email (and there are some other parents who will support this, but couldn't make it today) asking to see the resources used for teaching RSE.

We already have a list of concerns, so then if and when things are refused, or we see concerning resources, we will then follow up as a group, escalating as needed.

One of the mums on the PTA is going to scope out the chair of governors. As a PTA representative, she is also going to make a complaint about the heavy handed way the school has clamped down on WhatsApp use.

Another mum is going to make a formal complaints about a member of staff calling her boy a girl, because he has long hair.

I am going to send a few more references, and have read the whole Miriam Cates report, so will extract the interesting points and references for us all.

A fourth mum is going to ask the school about how they are ensuring that gender stereotypes are not perpetuated.

We'll all work together to write the emails.

Phew.

This is what we need. Women working together. Not kept apart and silenced for their concerns, never knowing that other people share these questions.

Couldn't have done this without you all. Even the shit who asserted on my first thread, that the rights of transwoman in female prisons were for the greater good, so women should just give up. Even they helped to formulate this.

The walls, they come tumbling down.

This is brilliant. This is how things happen. The bravery and collaboration of women. This is it.

Vebrithien, you are a pioneer.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 14:14

Vebrithien · Today 12:31

Thank you✨💐

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 14:16

Applauds.

Stands up.

Applauds till my hands hurt.

Then sticks my fingers in my mouth and whistles loudly.

The school are going to regret telling you to shut up.

🍻

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 14:16
standing ovation GIF

Remembers the new gif function

PaperCorners · 10/03/2023 14:49

This was a tick-box PR exercise only. There is no involvement.

If that was a while ago it may be worth having another go?Gillian Keegan made it clear that parents should be able to see 'materials' and if this involved resources provided by third parties the school could not refuse to disclose them behind issues of copyright.

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/03/2023 15:00

Boiledbeetle · 10/03/2023 08:41

Don't be stupid. They are women after all.

But best separate them just in case.

One of them might have been listening to her husband

Show quote history

😂😂😂

Lovely little exchange here!

SinnerBoy · 10/03/2023 15:07

Well, it sounds like you've had a really supportive and productive confab. Good for you all and good luck with it going forward.

Another mum is going to make a formal complaints about a member of staff calling her boy a girl, because he has long hair.

That teacher needs to be sorted out, badly!

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/03/2023 15:07

This reply has been deleted

Message deleted by MNHQ. Here's a link to our Talk Guidelines.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 15:09

PaperCorners · Today 14:49
This was a tick-box PR exercise only. There is no involvement.

If that was a while ago it may be worth having another go?Gillian Keegan made it clear that parents should be able to see 'materials' and if this involved resources provided by third parties the school could not refuse to disclose them behind issues of copyright

Thank you very much for that advice.

This was very recent in advance of Yr1. We shall see next year.

I’ll watch the programme.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 15:11

Emotionalsupportviper· Today 15:07
When it comes to protecting children we won'r give up.

This is so true.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 15:14

What on earth did Emotionalsupportviper say that was wrong?

Emotionalsupportviper · 10/03/2023 15:16

I'd be interested, too @ScrollingLeaves - I honestly don't know what I said that could be termed offensive.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 10/03/2023 15:19

You are stars! Flowers Flowers Flowers

PaperCorners · 10/03/2023 15:35

Depressing to hear how recent that was but hopefully things have moved in the last few months ScrollingLeaves. Although looking at the Miriam Cates' thread I was horrified to see Gillian Keegan's husband stuck his big blokey oar in on Twitter to tell everyone it's all nonsense. He got the response I would hope and expect from SSA and constituents who have been writing to and meeting GK for years with evidence of what's going on in schools.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 16:08

What did you say???!!!! @Emotionalsupportviper.

(And thanks for the rousing round of applause @Boiledbeetle ! Couldn't have done it without the support of the vipers/terven/coven!)

OP posts:
Emotionalsupportviper · 10/03/2023 18:27

Nothing, Vebs - I said nothing!

Ask @ScrollingLeaves ,

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 18:39

Emotionalsupportviper · Today 18:27
Nothing, Vebs - I said nothing!

Ask @@ScrollingLeaves,

Apart from the line I quoted,

*When it comes to protecting children we won'r give up. was near the end, the jist of it was all about what an important thing it was you had done to help dismantle this invidious capturing of schools and how we will not be silenced.(My words apart from the quote.)

Emotionalsupportviper why not ask mumsnet? I have in the past and they do answer usually.

dunBle · 10/03/2023 18:44

Oh that sounds brilliant @Vebrithien. More power to all your elbows, and I'm really hoping that the "calling the son with long hair a girl" thing was an accident, not deliberate, because that's really not on.

Original poster
Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 18:48

dunBle · 10/03/2023 18:44

Oh that sounds brilliant @Vebrithien. More power to all your elbows, and I'm really hoping that the "calling the son with long hair a girl" thing was an accident, not deliberate, because that's really not on.

PE teacher, "come on, you girl". Long haired boy. Repeated over several weeks.

Junior school

OP posts:
SinnerBoy · 10/03/2023 18:54

Well, it sounds like the dealing with should be, "Here's your cards, don't ask for a reference - bye." What a bloody awful bully.

dimorphism · 10/03/2023 19:59

No, we won't give up when it comes to protecting children.

Who on earth would want that deleted? Very sinister.

dunBle · 10/03/2023 22:30

Vebrithien · 10/03/2023 18:48

PE teacher, "come on, you girl". Long haired boy. Repeated over several weeks.

Junior school

Show quote history

Arsehole! Even if the boy didn't have long hair, definitely worth a complaint.

ScrollingLeaves · 10/03/2023 22:38

Even if it was a case of mistakenly thinking the boy was a girl, which it doesn’t seem it was, “You girl” is a rude way to keep speaking to one person for whom they should by now have a name