Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

[dunBle]

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

I'm not sure that Haldane applies to GRC holders for prisons - has there been any specific case law?

I think a provider of prisons could argue it falls under the single sex service exception.

The problem is that the judgement is subjective if it is on a case by case basis - who judges what is proportionate and legitimate, particularly when sex offenders have already been housed in the women’s estate? How do you deal with men who are on remand?

Yes, it shouldn't be case by case. I think a firm application of single sex service exemption would be legitimate though.

Now, now, girls! You've got to be very careful not to give people the wrong idea about the trans community even if you are not taking about the trans community and are focusing on policies being open to abuse. Actually it'd be so much better if you didn't worry your pretty little heads about it, we've been taking care of you for ages now. So please don't make NS have to actually think and apply common sense simultaneously! Actually please just stop talking, you'll upset the most vulnerable.

That Telegraph story has been updated with a new headline:

"Sturgeon’s political crisis deepens as she undermines her own gender laws
First Minister’s authority ebbs away as anger grows within her ranks after she refused three times to say trans rapist Isla Bryson is female"

Opinion piece in the Telegraph:

www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2023/02/02/nicola-sturgeons-political-career-even-snp-knows/

"It was she who dragooned her backbenchers into voting down amendments that would have provided much-needed safeguards for women-only spaces such as toilets and changing rooms.
But there are clear signs that her party is losing patience with her, given that she’s put independence on a back-burner. Above all now is the horror that they share with most Scots voters – that a senior politician, and a woman, too, could fail to see how wrong she has got this.
Said one senior nationalist: “We can’t go on like this. The past fortnight has been terrible.” Another said: “The skids are definitely under her now.”
And there was no argument, either, from one of her former close allies when I suggested that Sturgeon was “no longer proving to be an able and effective leader”. It’s pretty clear from these and other remarks that her authority is disintegrating bit by bit.
Sturgeon has said she played no part in the decision to send the rapist to Cornton Vale but has also consistently refused to admit she’s been wrong on the trans issue, nor to see any connection with her controversial Bill. This was vetoed by the UK Government but she still insists she’ll fight their ban in the courts."

And

"The old saying goes that, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck. Likewise, surely if it acts like a man, and has the wherewithal to rape a woman it must be a man? Isn’t that a fact of life?

On today’s evidence, not in Nicola Sturgeon’s book it isn’t."

What group would she assign Dolatowski to? The child sexual attacker and paedophile? The one who ended up housed in a women's refuge despite committing despicable crimes. Where was the risk assessment? Crock of shite.

Sturgeon has really messed this up.

'This individual claims to be a woman - what I said is that I don't have information about whether those claims have validity or not, but I don't think Douglas Ross and I are disagreeing here because what I think is relevant in this case is not whether the individual is a man or claims to be a woman or is a trans or is relevant is that the individual is a rapist that is how the individual should be described and it is that that should be the main consideration in deciding how the individual is dealt with.”

well, as to whether Isla’s claims to be a woman have “validity” it would be useful if we knew the criteria by which to assess such a claim. If we go by the traditional meaning he’s not, because he’s not female. If we go by the English GRA meaning he’s not because he doesn’t have a GRC- he has no diagnosis of dysphoria.

but if we go by the SNP’s shiny new definition a woman is someone who declares they are one and lives as a woman for at least two months. There is no there there. There is no further criterion , so the very concept of validity or falsity doesn’t come into it. Isla has declared he is a woman so he must be one. By her very definition she knows the answer !

but now her definition has gone out the window, apparently, and she says she doesn’t know if Isla is really a woman or not . Which raises the question

• if being a woman isn’t about self identifying as one then what is it? It would be really great for Nichola to share with us !

And trying to distinguish rapists as some Sui generis category can’t work either. It would mean that trans men and women who raped would have to be sent to male prisons. And what about trans women serial killers or sexual assaulters? Why are they magically still women and only rapists aren’t? Some actual logic and consistency so we could work this out ourselves would be welcome.

If Westminster hadn't blocked it Isla would have been able to apply for a GRC from prison and he'd have got it as well.

Nicola is going to have call up Layla Moran and the Harry Potter Sorting Hat before she can conclusively state if Dolatowski is AFAB, AMAB or APAB (‘assigned paedo at birth’).

Is anyone else half hoping The Rapist tries to compo claim against ScotGov for breaching his human rights via dehumanising language?
Doesn’t Nic know that he is more than just his crime? More than merely ‘The Rapist?

At the very least they should be using people-first, wokish language…

‘A Person Convicted of the Crime of Rape’ perhaps?

I'd wouldn't be at all surprised is Isla sues. He might be as genuine as any other tw. He might go penis inversion, have himself gelded, the whole lot. He'll still be a man though. He still has no business in women's single sex spaces, with or without a GRC. If the law says different then the law is an ass.

Yep.

Nicola has surely reached the ‘pleasing none of the people none of the time’ part of this story arc?

Apparently the law prefers the word donkey

Sunak!!

www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-11707375/Rishi-Sunak-takes-stand-trans-debate-Piers-Morgan-interview.html

"Rishi Sunak waded into the trans rights debate tonight by claiming human biology ‘really matters’ when it comes to policy in sport and prisons.

While the Government must have ‘enormous compassion’ for those wanting to change gender, Rishi Sunak said biological sex must take priority.

Referring to the case of trans rapist Isla Bryson, who was initially held in a female prison in Scotland, Mr Sunak suggested the state must ‘recognise the challenges’ around single-sex spaces while being sensitive to the trans community.

‘I know what a woman is – an adult human female, ’ he told Piers Morgan on TalkTV. ‘We must have enormous compassion and tolerance and understanding for those who are questioning their gender identity and wanting to change. That’s who we are as a people.’

But he came out against trans athletes competing in women’s sport, saying: ‘That doesn’t strike most people as being fair, right? So that’s why when it comes to these questions, biological sex matters... whether it’s sex, whether it’s women’s spaces, whether it’s prisons, biological sex really matters.’

He added that the move to block Scotland’s Gender Recognition Act outlined his commit."

(Not sure that last bit is quoted right - we shall have to watch the interview as the Mail must mean the GRR Bill!)

Can we have a few crumbs of that compassion and tolerance and understanding for the 50% of the population being fucked over by this tiny percentage forming this very loud, very aggressive, yay death threats political lobby?

SO tired of the there there, stroke stroke, (other people have rights too) tiptoeing.

At the very least they should be using people-first, wokish language…

‘A Person Convicted of the Crime of Rape’ perhaps?

You have it the wrong way round. Woke very definitely puts IDENTITY first.

@ResisterRex how interesting that the BBC article on the interview makes absolutely no reference to trans discussions…

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64506414

Ah yes. The dead hand of their staff network?? I think we should be told.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-scotland-scotland-politics-64501436

'A double rapist who was sent to a women's prison last week is "almost certainly" faking being trans, Nicola Sturgeon has suggested.'

There is a whole big section?

'Morgan asked Mr Sunak for his definition of a woman. Mr Sunak replied "adult human female", but suggested the TV presenter was actually asking about society's handling of people questioning their gender identity. Morgan brought up the case of Isla Bryson, a transgender woman convicted of raping two women while known as a man called Adam Graham. She was initially remanded in a women's prison, but has since been moved to a men's jail. Morgan said it showed the problem of "limitless gender self-identity". Mr Sunak said it demonstrated "some of the challenges", but added "we must and should have enormous compassion and tolerance and understanding for those who are questioning their gender and identity".

"But we have to recognise the challenges that that poses, particularly for women's safety," Mr Sunak said. "For me… whether it's sex, whether it's women's spaces, whether it's prisons, biological sex really matters."

Asked about transgender women athletes competing in women's sport, he said: "I think that doesn't strike most people as being fair. That's why when it comes to these questions, biological sex matters."'

I made a thing…

(well, someone did call us ‘MumChan’ last year!)

Well said Prime Minister! Now over to you Mr Starmer...

Question Time from Glasgow just starting on this topic now….

Fuck me, we have the bloody prime minister actually defining woman in an actual biological sense??

I know that shouldn't be a big deal. But jeez it feels like one

India Willoughby said we're being chipped away at.

Well now you know how women have been feeling for a good while now.