Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

[dunBle]

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

Dunno where the asterisks came from.
I want handing out stars or team points.

I'm only suggesting that everyone involved in the debate as these things are worked out considers that - regardless of viewpoint, sex or gender identity - all of the other people concerned are individual human beings and shouldn't be generalised as one group or have their perspectives dismissed.

Im suggesting the “trans” community go first. I’ve used inverted commas because the trans people I know are busy getting on with their lives and are keenly aware of the sensitivities around single sex spaces. What we’re dealing with all too often are predatory men piggy backing onto a debate that most trans people don’t support - they’re as harmed by the “no debate” rhetoric as anyone else.

When they stop threatening rape, and beheading…

subscribing to this idea of trans women all as this one group who are out to threaten women's spaces and rights, as so many people on here have implied - and at times outright said.

There is a massive group called transwomen who are threatening women's spaces.

Any man who calls himself a 'woman' is attempting to compromise the integrity of the very concept of womanhood. A biological category. Not a feeling in a man's head.

Why don't you go and tell these people to stop, and then we can all pack up and go home.

If the men you refer to are not calling themselves women, and do not want to access women's spaces, then the gender critical viewpoint does not apply to them.

It appears to be you who is confusing the two cohorts.

The women in Cornton Vale are also highly vulnerable in many ways.

No one seems to be rushing around scolding the TQ+ political lobby and Sturgeon for being insufficiently respectful and sensitive towards them. Odd this sex based difference.

Exactly. Even when this is pointed out, you'd expect people to have a lightbulb moment and think "fuck, yeah. What about the women?" but some still don't. I will never understand that.

Good thread with two clips. Begins:

"#FMQs and it appears that @ NicolaSturgeon has concluded there are 3 sexes - male, female and rapist.

Ofc, a tiny number of rapes are ever reported, let alone prosecuted. Does the "rapist" gender wear off after time served & will Graham be in a women's changing room thereafter?"

twitter.com/forwomenscot/status/1621144737729085441?s=46&t=TRqX-AfzXuHcXxAf225yhA

However, I would gently put it to you that it's easy to hide from the truth of individual cases, when subscribing to this idea of trans women all as this one group who are out to threaten women's spaces and rights, as so many people on here have implied - and at times outright said.

@likeanoldfriend This allegation, or deliberate misunderstanding, is how women get abused as TERFs, transphobic etc. It's fucking unfair and pure gaslighting.

Transgender women are humans, just like everyone else. They have vulnerabilities like lots of groups. But they are not exempt from safeguarding concerns.

If I spoke about the Catholic Church, and claimed there was a safeguarding issue with priests and child sexual abuse, would you assume that I meant every single Catholic priest was a child abuser?

If those priests pointed to their Christian values, celibacy and vows as evidence this was patently unfair, would that be justification to waive safeguarding?

If I talk about male violence against women, do you think I mean that my husband, son, father and every other decent male is also a rapist? That this is grossly unfair to me as a group?

I believe you know very well that we are talking about predators abusing gender identity to hurt women.

You may think that the cases cited are small and not worthy of mention, but they are a 'small' number of a 'small group', which means they are significant in the context of safeguarding issues emerging from within that group. Both America and UK stars show about 50% of TW in prisons are there for crimes of sexual violence. Fact.

Those transgender women who are perfectly safe and decent need to suck up this inconvenient truth in the way priests, men and other groups have had to do. They live with fact that fucking violent arseholes walk among them, and that victims cannot distinguish (as with priests / men) who is a risk, and who isn't. This is why safeguarding us necessary. This is the entire principle of safeguarding.

There will be more cases like Isla Bryson and the next might be even more horrific and more damaging. TW need to consider that and ask themselves how they can be a part of a safeguarding solution.

Women are NOT going to roll over and say TW are uniquely special and exempt from safeguarding and that in this one instance we will tolerate terror, violence etc. That is never ever going to happen. I will not offer my daughter up as cannon fodder for the 'Be Kind' movement.

I haven't seen this posted anywhere yet. Looks like NS is doubling down as she struggles to give coherent answers to questions from Douglas Ross. I liked his style of questioning, he sounds so calm. I can hardly believe that a man from the Conservative party is holding a woman from the SNP to account on the issue of women's safety. The world is upside down.

If there was a like button....

Anyway, I think that these be kinders don't understand that we've done that now, they've used it all up, spent all the kindness on shouting at women and refusing to compromise, on calling names and increasing danger until women just have nothing left to give and bleating to us about vulnerability just won't wash anymore.

If there is kindness to spread, let's think of the women now.

Many women have been monitoring this issue for years and years, they could write a bloody thesis on it.

They're so knowledgeable, that they can spot dissembling at a hundred paces.

When people talk about this issue, whereas they may sound rational to someone who knows little about it, to anyone who does, you can instantly see the manipulation, the evasion, the desperate linguistic gymnastics in order not to commit blasphemy.

it's like a litmus test for the integrity of the person talking.

And Nicola Sturgeon gets a U.

I wish she would stop saying that organisations can use the single sex exemption when Scot Gov funding for so many bodies is conditional on them accepting TWAW.

I’m not going to get into the individual circumstances of that particular individual’s claims to be a woman because I don’t have enough information about that

But Sturgeon’s right, isn’t she? She doesn’t know if the rapist has changed his name on his gas bill. If you don’t know that crucial information, it’s literally impossible to know the sex of the rapist.

👏👏👏

Patronising gits.

They want us to speak when spoken to, and in a deferential manner - bugger that!

I’m not going to get into the individual circumstances of that particular individual’s claims to be a woman because I don’t have enough information about that

I find it really hard to believe that she has chosen to remain ignorant of the details about an issue which has caused her so many problems this week. I'd bet she's been so thoroughly briefed about Graham that she knows his shoes size and childhood vaccination record.

She made me cross by referring to this man as a rapist rather than upset the TRA's. Both are true but she was avoiding admitting ths she didn't think he was a woman.

Excellent post @scratchedbymycat

Crikey, Oldfriend you have a very dominant Inner Beryl!

You should find a way to shut her up a bit rather than merrily inflicting her on other women.

Some of us have worked hard at shaking off the wet-blanket of female socialisation, we aren’t going to put it back on because your inner martyr doesn’t like the tone of our language.

Set yourself free from the burden of pandering to the penis-people, it’s only ever a one-way relationship, you give, they take.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3412053-Mumsnet-FWR-Guide-to-De-Programming-Yourself-From-Self-Harming-Kindness

How about this - no debate has led to an ignorant, discriminatory law with the capacity to inflict harm, on women as a class because of individual feelings?

Scotland was the home of the Enlightenment. Now trans activist has rendered its politicians and its laws an utter joke because that ridiculous emotive unpoliced individualism. This whole thing has been a choice by people educated in ways where they could have applied critical thinking but those who did were penalized. They were targetted as individuals.

Many of these people should be encouraged to leave public life for good. They can't separate feelings from fact. They think childishly and as lawmakers they are positively dangerous.

'This individual claims to be a woman - what I said is that I don't have information about whether those claims have validity or not, but I don't think Douglas Ross and I are disagreeing here because what I think is relevant in this case is not whether the individual is a man or claims to be a woman or is a trans or is relevant is that the individual is a rapist that is how the individual should be described and it is that that should be the main consideration in deciding how the individual is dealt with that is why of course the individual is in a male prison not in the female prison so these are the issues that matter.'

Amusingly, the transcript has Douglas Ross down as 'chocolate straws'.

'in dealing with individuals like this who have to be dealt with very seriously it is important that we don't inadvertently undermine the rights of the law-abiding majority of trans people in our country and I think that is an important principle that we mustn't lose sight of'

it's however apparently fine no problem to undermine the rights of women.

AHVE USED THE RIGHTS OF WOMEN TO FILL IN SOME O THE POTHOLES

In dealing with rapists; we must put trans people front and centre and ensure no hurt feelings are caused.
She's beyond the fucking pale.

AS FOR THE FURRIES

SORRY I MEAN FERRIES, WERE GOIN TAE SEE IF WOMEN FLOAT OR SINK

@RealFeminist
With Capt Nic at the helm we'll be the same as the Ferries - non existent!