Sturgeon getting an absolute grilling on Channel 4 News

[dunBle]

I should imagine the clip will be doing the rounds on twitter shortly if it's not already, but their Scotland correspondant Ciaran Jenkins did a really good job in a brief interview with her when she was on a tour of a TV studio today. Raised the issue of Katie Dolatowski, and got her quite rattled trying to get her to justify her comments about transphobia and racism. Should be on about 8:15/8:20ish if you want to watch it on C4+1

and to all the women kicked off here. Remember Lang Cleg. ❤️❤️❤️

and now we can say all this stuff

I haven't been able to view either clip yet. Did either interviewer ask NS what it means to 'live as a woman/man'? This seems to me to go to the heart of the matter. People trot out this ridiculous phrase as if it means something, but which women? which men? is my response. I happen to be a woman. I live my life one way. It's very different from the lives of many other women in the UK. Hugely different from the lives of women in most other countries of the world. So which of us is a transwoman living as?

Take that Nicola Sturgeon.

Here's a possibly helpful exploration of this- if you are genuinely curious LikeAnOldFriend

janeclarejones.com/2018/09/09/gay-rights-and-trans-rights-a-compare-and-contrast/

No they didn’t gasp.

they just asked what the dirrence is between a criminal tw and other tw.

and how some tw can’t go to prison and some tw can

Tw can’t go to female prisons and other tw can go to female prisons

It was her response to the repeated question of why she didn't feel it necessary to intervene in the Katie Dolatowski case some months ago. She all but admitted that it was necessary in the recent Isla case to intervene, due to increasing public awareness. Whereas a few months ago these sneaky deals were ok back when only terfs were protesting and being silenced. Again not a thought to the protection of women.

@LikeAnOldFriend Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?
I know you all feel strongly about this but I feel genuinely sad at how the understandably emotive issue of trans women in prisons has whipped people up to a point where there's such glee in posts like this, and underneath it all is such a dismissive and negative view of all the trans women in our society and how they feel - which is often I would imagine desperately unseen, marginalised and discriminated against.

see below. Plus also a thread on here couple of days ago a transwoman called us witches. So I'm a bit meh! about giving a fuck right now

They can wear pink frilly dresses and burgundy leggings if they want to, just the same as I can be forever in blue jeans.

But clothing isn't what makes someone a man or a woman, boy or a girl.

Be a brave bold MAN and wear your frilly frock and your leggings in the Gents.

There's quite a good recent one from Julie Bindel too

I’ve learned to resist the urge to tone police other adult women.

I know, it’s hard to break away from female socialisation. We’ve been taught it since birth.
Keep your knees together, don’t speak with your mouthful, don’t say words that men don’t want to hear.

But y’know… a woman really does have the right to use the full range of words in the languages she speaks, in whichever order she decides to arrange them.

Same as men do.

@LikeAnOldFriend

No

They wont have heard of mumsnet would they?

That's not extremism PineCone. That's you feeling uncomfortable at women being furious, incandescent and outraged. Women expressing strong views.

Extremism is the threats, including sexually violent threats. Forcing women in prison to shower alongside male rapists, getting women sacked or disciplined for their legitimate views, frightening parents into being silent in the face of their children making catastrophic decisions about their sex - and much more.
That's extremism.

That is bloody brilliant! I'm saving it to read and reread.

I was not thinking of women at all. I was meaning all of us, men, women, society in general, myself included, all of us. I am sorry that you feel I was tone policing. I did not mean that.

We are not emotional support animals to males who would prefer to be female. Women have lives and interests of their own. They don't need to put those away for other people's feelings.

Again with the forced teaming. There is no connection between gay rights and gender self-ID. Gay rights are about men and women having the right to be same-sex attracted and not face discrimination as a result. Gender self-ID is about having the right to say 'I identify as [the opposite of one's birth sex - or neither sex]' and be taken seriously. It's like saying 'You supported a change in the divorce laws so you should automatically also support a change in the laws on pornography'. No, because they are two separate issues.

Another issue that a few short years ago was gaining a bit of traction was the idea that children should be free to express themselves sexually and there should be either no age of consent or a much, much lower one. A number of selfless males were willing to help these children express themselves. Various useful idiots nodded along and agreed that nothing was off limits. None of them appeared to give a moment's thought to the children involved or to use their common sense and apply critical thinking to this, in the light of what we know about child development. Fortunately, the rest of society woke up to that pretty fast and knocked it on the head, but lo and behold, the 'minor attracted people' are all over Twitter these days claiming that they're another persecuted minority and trying to get their identity recognised and accepted.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/magazine-26352378

OK. Fair enough.

But what about the (substantive) point that same-sex attraction and trans are radically different because sincerely to feel one is attracted is to be attracted whereas sincerely to feel one is the opposite sex is to be mistaken?

Once again (for a man, mutatis mutandis for a woman):
"I am attracted to men" must be true if sincere; "I am a woman" must be false, even if sincere.

Did you read the argument? Did you understand? Are you convinced? Why?

Do any of you ever think about how a trans woman would feel stumbling across your threads on here?

Do you ever think of the girls of 14 who've been mutilated because adults convinced them they were boys?

Do you ever think of the women in prison terrified because they're locked up with men?

Do you ever think of women who've been sent death threats and rape threats?

Do you ever think of women who've been bullied out of their jobs?

We got a shoutout from James Kirkup

twitter.com/jameskirkup/status/1620044157346791424?s=20&t=qkjYJjOJvCe9NE6w73N3kA

He spelled us wrong! not even a homophone.

twitter.com/GraceBrodie/status/1619669757531398144

I rather liked this....

I mean more in the name-calling, glee at the prospect of people who we don’t agree with being taken down and so on.

I am absolutely gleeful. Having had to try and explain the concept of transgender to my 8 and 9 year old children, because a child in my daughters class was being supported to transition aged 10, I’m gleeful that the nonsense position of NS is attracting some daylight and that she’s being asked hard questions. I’m ecstatic that she’s unable to explain a consistent position about men in women’s prisons, having had her cabal vote against an amendment that would have avoided the whole issue in the first place - the sound of chickens coming home to roost is music to my ears.

I make absolutely no apology for my glee, it makes a nice change from the frustration, exasperation, dismay and fear I’ve been feeling for years watching the inevitable consequences of this dangerous ideology unfold.

I for one will be dancing on her political grave, and welcoming anyone who wants to join me.