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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Radio four Today!!

126 replies

Nicedayout22 · 30/01/2023 07:55

About 7.50, former governor of the Scottish women's prison : treat yourself to a listen!! Then a weasel MSP

OP posts:
Elsanore · 30/01/2023 08:13

Will have a listen now!

lanadelgrey · 30/01/2023 08:14

Also worth a listen is yesterday’s Westminster Hour, second item about 20 mins in. It suggests a bit of a shift in Labour and overt support for Rosie Duffield

Motorina · 30/01/2023 08:14

I know! A BBC producer reading out a statement using the male pronouns for transwomen and saying they are indivisible from men. If you’d told me that a month ago I would not have believed you.

And in peak commuter listening time too.

ResisterRex · 30/01/2023 08:17

Motorina · 30/01/2023 08:14

I know! A BBC producer reading out a statement using the male pronouns for transwomen and saying they are indivisible from men. If you’d told me that a month ago I would not have believed you.

And in peak commuter listening time too.

Was it about Graham? Because he's literally a man.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/29/un-nicola-sturgeon-common-sense-violent-sex-offenders-jail/

"Court chiefs had wanted to send Bryson to Glasgow's men-only Barlinnie prison. Bryson was was named Adam Graham when committing the rapes and has not legally changed gender.

But the SPS guidance allowing criminals to self-identify their gender meant the rapist was initially sent to Cornton Vale. Following a huge public outcry, Bryson was moved to a men's cell in Edinburgh's Saughton jail."

unclebuck · 30/01/2023 08:17

WOW!

FrancescaContini · 30/01/2023 08:21

Motorina · 30/01/2023 08:14

I know! A BBC producer reading out a statement using the male pronouns for transwomen and saying they are indivisible from men. If you’d told me that a month ago I would not have believed you.

And in peak commuter listening time too.

Keep peaking the nation, Today programme, particularly at peak listening time (crap pun obv intended)!

BabyStopCryin · 30/01/2023 08:26

Which weasel?

Nicedayout22 · 30/01/2023 08:29

BabyStopCryin · 30/01/2023 08:26

Which weasel?

Kevin something, home affairs minister

OP posts:
Elsanore · 30/01/2023 08:36

I didn't find the MP that bad. He was being defensive about what's gone on to date but seemed to be generally agreeing that men shouldn't be in women's prisons?

MoirasSaggyBundles · 30/01/2023 08:37

Keith Brown, Cabinet Secretary for Justice

Signalbox · 30/01/2023 08:40

“it’s not about TW presenting a risk it’s about predatory men presenting a risk”

So no self ID for predatory men then?

MoirasSaggyBundles · 30/01/2023 08:42

Nope weasel. The interviewer specifically asks him from the off why he changed his mind that the decision as to where trans prisoners are held is down to the SPS. He dodged the answer and claims this decision is "bolstering" the SPS, rather than overruling them.

He also trots out the line about it not being trans women who inherently are risky, but predatory men. So a complete reverse ferret on the TWAW, self ID is enough stance taken by the SNP.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 30/01/2023 08:43

He says SPS is conducting a review on these latest cases that will be reporting this Friday. And there is a longer term review being conducted.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 30/01/2023 08:46

No apology, as demanded by Rhona Hodgekiss, from the Scottish Govt to women who have been described as transphobes and bigots for raising the concerns he's now addressing. He says he's never said such things. Wish the interviewer had pointed out that his boss Nicola said exactly that yesterday.

LizzieSiddal · 30/01/2023 08:48

My god, is this the biggest reverse ferret so far?

Rightsraptor · 30/01/2023 08:53

Did Sturgeon say only yesterday that women raising these issues were 'transphobes and bigots', @MoirasSaggyBundles ?

That woman needs to learn to read the room.

BabyStopCryin · 30/01/2023 08:53

It’s like arguing with a toddler.

FlossieF · 30/01/2023 08:55

Also discussed with Anneliese Dodds at around 6.51 am. She properly dodged a clear question from the presenter and blamed it all on the conservatives failing to produce clear guidance.

Signalbox · 30/01/2023 08:57

Very specific wording KB using … “history of violence against women”.

Interviewer asked if any of the TW currently held in the female estate have a “history of violence”

He answered that there are currently no “TW with a history of sexual violence against women or girls” in the female estate.

This presumably means that there could well be TW with a history of non-sexual violence against women or girls or violence against boys or men or animals.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 30/01/2023 09:01

Rhona Hodgekiss's interview answers (read out in statement form by a producer) for posterity:

When I was governor of Corton Vale, around 2017, there was a suggestion that Tiffany Scott might be transferred to us. He was being held in a male prison and had been for some time. He was known to be violent and very difficult to manage, posing an ongoing threat to staff and other prisoners.

I was appalled at the thought of him being held with the women at Corton Vale. Many women in prison are amongst the most vulnerable people I have ever met, and this person would have terrified them. My immediate reaction was to say, "Over my dead body was he coming here." Shortly after that, he was involved in some other incident, and stayed at a male prison in segregation. The idea of moving him to Corton Vale wasn't raised again.

In my view, informed by my experiences with other trans women I met in prison, and the impact that they had on the women around them, they should never be held in women's prisons. I think what needs to be understood is that, to all intents and purposes, transwomen are indivisible from men. The argument goes that they are vulnerable in men's prisons - but there are groups of men whom that could also be said about, and they are held quite successfully within protection units within the male estate. No-one would suggest, for example, that convicted police officers be held in a female prison.

ExiledElsie · 30/01/2023 09:03

Signalbox · 30/01/2023 08:40

“it’s not about TW presenting a risk it’s about predatory men presenting a risk”

So no self ID for predatory men then?

But there was an amendment proposed specifically on this point, that convicted sex offenders shouldn't be able to self id. It was voted down.

Why is he not questioning why he is suddenly going against this?

TheirEminence · 30/01/2023 09:07

We have known about all this for years. Just goes to show what a difference it makes when the public broadcaster steps in. RH’s statement on the Today programme feels like a giant leap. And once you connect the dots, some people may find that the problem lies with empowering any male to adopt a female (not feminine!) identity.

MoirasSaggyBundles · 30/01/2023 09:07

Rightsraptor · 30/01/2023 08:53

Did Sturgeon say only yesterday that women raising these issues were 'transphobes and bigots', @MoirasSaggyBundles ?

That woman needs to learn to read the room.

No, I got that wrong. She said it in a pre-recorded podcast aired last Friday:

“But there are people who have opposed this bill that cloak themselves in women's rights to make it acceptable, but just as they're transphobic you'll also find that they're deeply misogynist, often homophobic, possibly some of them racist as well.”

www.thenational.scot/news/23280175.nicola-sturgeon-gender-reform-critics-using-debate-cloak-bigotry/

AlliwantforChristmasisgu · 30/01/2023 09:09

Does anyone else remember, probably 8-10 years ago, a similar but opposite storm when a transwoman was placed in a men’s prison? I don’t remember the specifics but I think the person in question had had breast augmentation surgery and so superficially looked like a woman. I remember listening to Radio 4 at the time and wondering why on earth people were demanding that this person was placed in a female prison. I think the story was news for about a week and ended up with the person being housed in the female estate.

While I am delighted the tide is turning, the media could have asked questions much earlier.

TheMagicSword · 30/01/2023 09:10

I was also shocked - in a good way - to hear that statement in full. It would have been unthinkable a month ago.

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