'Breaking' - Transgender rapist won’t be imprisoned in Scotland’s all-women jail, Nicola Sturgeon tells MSPs

[zaramysaviour]

Excellent news.

And Sturgeon has really shot herself in the foot here (again). Because if she really thinks 'trans women are women', why is she not allowing this 'woman' to go to a female prison?

So therefore she knows this person is not a woman.

So therefore she is being transphobic...

Love that news report repeatedly going on about how he'll "wake up" in a male wing. Wake up, wake up, wake up.

Dolatowski should be next for the newspapers that are reporting on this outrage.

Guido's "throwback: when Nandy backed male rapists in prisons":

twitter.com/guidofawkes/status/1618937691499892736?s=46&t=kkJ1cBsBv5xrvFm7cEartA

It's frightening to think how the flood gates are being opened. How many men will take full advantage of this, fiddling the system which welcomes them with open arms.

and I don't believe for one second that they will be 'rigorously assessed' for suitability to be housed in a female prison. Will they bollocks.

Seriously how many of these transitioning men would continue if they had to carry out their sentence in a male prison where they bloody well belong - ZERO I bet.

Did this get posted already? Apologies if so. So much going on today!

"Now confirmed that the court warrant said Graham should be sent to Barlinnie, but that was over-ruled by the SPS due to their "ahead of the law" self ID policy. Were Ministers involved?"

twitter.com/ForWomenScot/status/1618878106449870850?t=2tjikpVmRc1Swzag46RlTQ&s=19

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/26/nicola-sturgeons-trans-law-disarray-rapist-climbdown/

@lemmein I guess firstly vulnerable men is not a woman’s problem to solve, by giving up their own protections. Secondly there are always vulnerable men, who have been housed in men’s prisons, it’s a vulnerability issue, which every prison has ways of tackling.

I did have a male friend who was small, slight, extremely pretty (always mistaken for a girl) who went to prison when he was younger. I’m not going to lie I was very worried about his safety. But in no way would my male friend ever demand he had to be housed with women instead, he respected women’s single spaces. The thing is, he had a fine time in prison, other men aren’t always going to target feminine men, if they had he would have asked for protection. But he treated other men with respect and they did the same back, he treated them as humans and so they did too. It’s also because there are different categories and if you are ‘more severe’ as in serious violence etc they are housed with their own category.

This is why the third spaces option should be used. Single sex remains single sex a gender neutral third space, or prison in this case keeps everyone happy and everyone safe.

But the trans Rights Activists are fighting for complete surrender of all sexed based rights and spaces.

It's not helping your friend who no doubt just wants to go about their life in peace.

Because unfortunately for your friend they are male. And he, no matter how well he passes should not be in females spaces. It's not fair on the women who now can't use those spaces because they know they are no longer single sex. if your friend is allowed into a single sex spaces for women then the Scottish double rapist gets the same rights.

And I'm not happy about that. In fact I'm furious.

Thwack! Hear that?

It's the Shit hitting the fan!!

Sit back and enjoy, where does the buck stop? Won't be NS.

Another thing about the argument that TW should be put in women’s prisons - but then put in their own segregated unit anyway because of the risks to women - which could have been done in a men’s prison - makes zero sense!

Except that they have to get intimate searches from female prison wardens instead of male wardens.

This. No way to distinguish between genuine dysphoric individuals and vicious violent misogynists = a hard no to ALL males in women's spaces.

Third spaces by all means, with appropriate safeguarding.

The least worst option IMO, and it's on the TRAs.

Third spaces is what someone I know (they had surgery 10/15 years ago after many years of counselling from teens) from the swinging world campaigns for.

They actually feel that the current push has set genuine trans people back massively because there was only ever going to be disaster with pushing into women’s spaces.

they get a lot of stick, and in fact ended up leaving Twitter, for repeatedly pointing out that asking women to be unsafe from men to help them be safer from men was hypocritical and never going to work. It was just making even more people unsafe.

They also get a lot of shit for replying to people who say that they live like a woman that they can’t possibly remotely live like a woman if they don’t grasp why men in women’s spaces is frightening.

Except that they have to get intimate searches from female prison wardens instead of male wardens.

Simple, just send in male wardens and tell them to identify as women at the time. Same thing isn't it?

BlueBooh · Today 12:46

But what about the sex attacker that is STILL in there!!

Lets hope that this one blows up in the press, too. "Katie" is a bloody paedophile and has no business near women and girls. If he attacked someone in a men's prison, they should have dealt with it.

As an aside, it looks as though Sturgeon is moonlighting as a prison officer - in the photo...

Yes, Mornington Crescent is very much what it's like.

What gender/sex undertakes strip or intimate searches in a "third space?" Will wardens for such spaces have to identify as trans also?

Not really relevant since the discussion here is about not inflicting men into women's spaces, particularly those who are sex offenders.

Not the job of women to sort out policy in whatever other provisions need to be created for the male estate.

As silly as the "but where to the male rapists go to, eh, eh? The men's prison? Didn't think about that when you were saying male rapists shouldn't be in female prisons, did ya, you stupid ciswoman" argument.

JKR has NS firmly in her sights <shakes pom-poms>

twitter.com/jk_rowling/status/1618978379621076992?s=61&t=VQ3RRgbC-1D-N6QWbBST_w

This reply is so good:

twitter.com/redney71/status/1618979612389961728?s=46&t=iWJTNcyLETZ2grVmt3XXyg

Disgusting. I'm so angry about this shit. Can't we do some class action lawsuits and sue the uk government, sue the EU, sue everyone.

No one did due dillegence. Women have been sick over this and got fired, vilified, ....

The amount of politicians, journalists and all-round fuckwits coming out with, 'Well, in this one extreme instance it isn't right to send this rapist to a women's prison' is infuriating. The uncomplicated system whereby we had sex-separated facilities in some circumstances worked pretty well. This case-by-case scenario is hypocritical, unworkable, and leaves women's safety down to arbitrary decision making rather than a guarantee.

By what criteria are they deciding that Adam Graham is faking it but other men are not? Do they even think he is faking it, or do they just think this particular 'woman' is uniquely dangerous? If that is the case, then what is it about Graham that is so much worse than the many other cases of trans sex offenders and violent criminals? Do they think a woman will be happy sharing a cell or showering in front of a man who has been imprisoned for fraud? Right now it looks like a bunch of hypocrites have realised that the photos of Graham are so ludicrous and the political timing of this is so inexpedient that they are having to abandon even their own twisted logic.

In the unlikely event that Graham persists with his charade after his release, what happens then? Will he be able to identify his way into a women's hostel, or locker rooms and toilets? What happens to this case-by-case testing of trans authenticity then? How does it work?

That was my suggestion, too - a few gender fluid male=-bodied warders whose "girl mode" is triggered by intimately body-searching male-bodied "women".

They actually feel that the current push has set genuine trans people back massively because there was only ever going to be disaster with pushing into women’s spaces.

Absolutely this @YetMoreNewBeginnings - genuinely dysphoric individuals who just want to quietly get on with their lives will face a massive backlash, and I suspect that gay men will, too, because homophobia will raise its ugly head again using this as an excuse.

"TW are women" is retrograde on so many levels, and so many decent, law-abiding individuals are going to pay the price for the "Acceptance without exception" and "No debate" mantras.

Women are suffering now, but it will backfire, and innocent men - however the comfortably identify - will suffer later.

Meanwhile all of the fetishists and lawbreakers will just take off their wigs and lippy and go back to being openly men fetishists and lawbreakers.

During one of the big child safeguarding disasters that led to white papers and inquiries, a senior person in a local authority told me impatiently that this kind of thing happened all the time in all authorities and the general public were kept in happy ignorance of this. This particular case 'escaping into the press' as he put it, was regarded as a failure. Because now you had the general public kicking off, and all the papers getting in on the act, and questions asked in parliament, and pressure to Do Something, and accountability had to be created, and it was all one big mess when it wasn't a 'big deal'. Just very inconvenient.

It was quite a shock to hear the degree of cynicism.

But yes. This fuss about this one man is ridiculous, and I would think that his legal team are rubbing their hands with glee. Because they will be able to say there are all those male offenders, as bad and worse, all happily doing their thing in women's prisons and causing all the trouble KPSS keep account of. And their client has been removed not because of policy change, but because of politicians running scared from a public reaction.

And they will have a case.

They have treated this man unfairly, for the wrong reasons, while making a lot of confused statements about how the law they set up and supported (until it got really uncomfortable to face) is not ok, they don't support it (but are not planning to change it or take out those other men.)

This is why the noise and pressure has to continue. Particularly as I would wonder, with deep cynicism, whether this man has been quietly put in another women's estate, or promises made about in a few weeks when the fuss dies down. Because otherwise his legal team will rightfully have the Scots govt on toast.

Either it is fine for all male sex offenders who have invoked the power of Greyskull to be in women's prisons providing that 'double punishment' of women that was the reason for creating women only prisons 200 years ago, or it isn't fine, and none should be in the women's estate.

If a group of women prisoners were able to get together (whether they'd been physically assaulted or not - they have still been abused and subjected to indecent assault if they've been forced to shower etc with men) needed to to crowdfund, I imagine the support would be HUGE!

And not just sue the govt, sue individuals who's support in parliament enabled this travesty. Idon't know if that's a legal possibility (when has this govt ever been worried about legality), but I'd love to see it!