'Breaking' - Transgender rapist won’t be imprisoned in Scotland’s all-women jail, Nicola Sturgeon tells MSPs

[zaramysaviour]

Excellent news.

And Sturgeon has really shot herself in the foot here (again). Because if she really thinks 'trans women are women', why is she not allowing this 'woman' to go to a female prison?

So therefore she knows this person is not a woman.

So therefore she is being transphobic...

ResisterRex · Today 09:35

🚨 this ferret is reversing 🚨

Maya was quite quick with a reply:

"It's a good job that male sexual predators are all scrupulously honest and would never take advantage of this."

The BBC report of this story says "It is thought to have been the first time a trans woman has been convicted of raping women in Scotland."

Is that right? Or did they just not identify previous rapists as trans?

Nicola Sturgeons "isn't possible for a rapist..." wording felt very gaslighty, we know it's possible and has been happening right?

Nothing to see here. It couldn't happen, we'd stop it. We absolutely didn't stand up in parliament and argue against amendments that would stop it just the other week.

Everyone needs to keep retweeting the Lisa Nandy quote from 2019 at Kier Starmer and other members of the Labour front bench until they hold their hands up and ask for the forgiveness of those women they have alienated in the last few years.

Source of the quote can be found in this tweet (MN won’t let me link to the YouTube video for some reason): twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1618902847420272640?s=46&t=o7m6ognbhXakwW0g4RBRvw

@lemmein
Male prison, vulnerable inmates wing.

Hilarious! Can't wait for the rest of them to about turn.

It's all nonsense.

It's infuriating though. They were so abusive to those of us who argued against this and now they just shrug and say that it's obvious that this shouldn't happen. Why can no one pin them down to explain why they behaved the way they did towards women then?

In BBC report "Sarah Armstrong, a professor of criminology at Glasgow University, said she was surprised that concern over the safety of women in prison was "focused on this one, very exceptional case" given the "scathing" reports from the European Committee on the Prevention of Torture after previous visits to Cornton Vale.
Prof Armstrong said: "We hear the committee saying women are being held in segregation for such long periods and with no mental health support - one women gnawed her arm to the bone. I'd love to hear those who care about the safety of women showing up for the issues that are really facing women in prison."

How does this in any way add to the debate?

Does that mean we should let men into the women's prisons, because there is worse happening anyway?

Or does it mean we should not be wasting the time and resources letting men into women's prisons because there is worse happening and we should deal with that?

If trans women care about women why aren't they fighting for the vulnerable women in women's prisons rather than trying to access the bathroom at their local leisure centre?

Quite.
Doesn't address those cases where the offender is trans either does it?
This is the GC point. If you are hinging where you place your prisoner on the say so of the prisoner, how can you arbitrate between who is genuine and who is a chancer? (Ignoring the wider point about their risk to the wider prison population)

@PriamFarrl
Why case by case? They are both male. We can't say who passes and we can't say who is sincere. It is neither difficult or complicated. Human beings are either male or female. If a prisoner is male, they belong in a male prison. Measures should be taken to ensure the safety of all vulnerable prisoners - young men, men with special needs, disabled men, gay men - in men's prisons. Why are men who claim to be women a special case? Last year it was confirmed in the HoL that 90% of this cohort are housed in the male estate without problems. So why not 100% of them?

It is the first rape conviction, but there have been several sexual assault convictions. I think the SNP/NS are banking on people not realising that they are drawing a somewhat arbitrary or artificial distinction between rape and other forms of sexual assault, and will therefore assume that this is the first sexual assault conviction.

Me & my Fiancé was having this discussion last night. There is an interesting article in the Daily Mail on 21st January 2023 by Sarah Vine on the subject of Trans & Starmer, link if you want to read it.

She says what is forbidden these days: A trans woman is not a woman, they are biologically male, & always will be. I agree with this statement.

www.dailymail.co.uk/debate/article-11662063/amp/SARAH-VINE-Starmer-gets-No10-rights-women-Britain-set-decades.html

The politicians continue to show absolute incoherence.

So now insincere male sex offenders identifying as TW should never, never be in women's prisons.

Ok.

As many tweets ask: How do you tell the difference? It's self ID, there is no way to know who is sincere and who is not.

But that isn't the only sticking point.

Why is it unthinkable that an insincere male TW sex offender be in a women's prison, but becomes fine if the TW is sincere?

Let's pin that down.

What is different about a genuinely TW sex offender in a women's prison to an insincere TW sex offender?

Are we really saying that women's safety and dignity is predicated on fully understanding what is going on inside the head of a male sex offender?

Or that if they're genuine, the male biology and drive to offend and the experience of the women in that prison is somehow negated or different?

There is no difference between a TW and any other male human. Being TW does not in any way affect their sex class.

Jeremy Vine will be talking about this on his tv show soon, there is a transwoman on his panel though so we'll see how it goes.

Prof Armstrong said: "We hear the committee saying women are being held in segregation for such long periods and with no mental health support

Then provide the TQ+ specialist units where segregation isn't necessary to keep females safe.

Provide the mental health support.

The answer isn't to abandon women by stuffing male people into their estate. There are plenty of answers to the difficulties of males: none of them are ever suggested or tried because the interest isn't in really improving things for TW prisoners. The interest is solely in destroying women's rights.

*Beamur · Today 10:26

This is the GC point. If you are hinging where you place your prisoner on the say so of the prisoner, how can you arbitrate between who is genuine and who is a chancer?

It's impossible. Keeping them out of women's is the only reasonable option.

Crikey ... the flare of white hot anger that I felt when I read that ...

I hope with all my heart that Scottish women remember this when these arses ask for our votes next time.

nilsmousehammer · Today 10:44

6The politicians continue to show absolute incoherence.^

I agree, they have their twisted agenda, to show how lovely fluffy liberal they are, whilst dissembling like Hell on the reality, which they simply don't care about. Unless it bites them on the arse.

Great Post. It's like the supposed 'gotcha' from TRA's that some male prison guards assault women prisoners. Strangely enough, women can find that abhorrent/'show up for that issue' and object to putting more males (not least convicted sex offenders) into the female prison estate.

And it's hardly 'an exceptional' case - Professor Armstrong is being deeply ingenious by stating that it is.

Thank you!!!! I couldn’t find this yesterday. Have now bookmarked it.

This is the GC point. If you are hinging where you place your prisoner on the say so of the prisoner, how can you arbitrate between who is genuine and who is a chancer?

And what is so incredibly bizarre about this is that ANYONE with half a brain cell can see this is an issue. If it was any other kind of situation that could lead to a risk, no one would think a sexual offender should be trusted to declare himself entitled to be housed with his potential victims.

Imagine going at it from the other direction. You've never heard of gender ideology. You hear that a male rapist with fully intact and functional body is going to be out in a women's prison.

But why? you ask.

"Because he says he's a woman. Of course as a convicted criminal we wouldn't let him decide anything else or believe whatever he says, but with that we believe him, despite the fact that it can't be proved ort tsted for in any way, and we know men who say this have a far higher than normal proprtion of sex offenders. But it is true, because a lobby group said so." I mean FFS.

And it's hardly 'an exceptional' case - Professor Armstrong is being deeply ingenious by stating that it is.

And also so what if it was - if I was a vulnerable female prisoner being raped by a male, why would I care if it was a one off? Those in power should be doing everything they can to protect women from rapists, all rapists, full stop.

What next "oh he only raped a few people, stop making a silly fuss."

Thanks for the replies to the post about my friend. I tend to agree with the general consensus...I think. Although imo she passes, I agree that's subjective so who decides? I'm not sure it's even appropriate to make concessions based on who passes, regardless. I remember indiaW being on BB with that young man, I can't remember his name, who was a drag artist. He too was quite petite and had 'feminine' features but identified as a man (fair enough he had 'feminine features' with a shit load of makeup but IW is hardly natural!) whereas IW had been through surgery and still, to me, presented as very masculine, both in looks and manner. Out of the 2 I would feel more threatened by IW than I would Courtney Act (just googled his name, it was annoying me ) That's just going on looks alone and the criteria of 'passing' (and assuming CA would suddenly identify as trans if he were to be imprisoned)

Even the option of having a trans wing is wrought with issues - surely most men would choose to go in the trans wing? What criteria would there be to serve your sentence there? Just choice? Would 'Isla' go to the trans-wing?

I agree too that there will be a large number of men in male prisons who have vulnerabilities which make them equally (or more) at risk as a TW. Arghh the whole thing really hurts my head - but I'm inclined to agree that sex segregated prisons should be the default, with extra protections within the prisons for those that need it. I don't think women's safety should ever be compromised to accommodate men, which answers my own question I suppose 🤷🏻‍♀️

Name changed; I wonder if she's back tracking generally as she supported Emma Bateman on twitter this week. I thanked her with a terfy comment which she liked. Will have to find

I think if you did a flow chart to help you decide where a criminal should go the first box should be 'male or female?', everything else should flow from that.

The tras should be find with that. They do like putting people in boxes.

So trans women are women until I say they are not women enough and they need to go into some situations with men, because it's safer, but only the situations I decide, and not you silly women out there......got it....