'Breaking' - Transgender rapist won’t be imprisoned in Scotland’s all-women jail, Nicola Sturgeon tells MSPs

[zaramysaviour]

Excellent news.

And Sturgeon has really shot herself in the foot here (again). Because if she really thinks 'trans women are women', why is she not allowing this 'woman' to go to a female prison?

So therefore she knows this person is not a woman.

So therefore she is being transphobic...

Bold fail, AGAIN 🙄

They got one didn't they...? 😉

Good to see The Daily Record front page.

And from that, can the general public extend their imagination and think about women in hospital on a women's ward, in a 4-bedded bay, and Bryson being an occupant of one of those beds?

@lemmein re your friend who 100% passes... I always am.a bit hmmm when people say that, they may 100% pass to you, but you can't say that for everyone. That unfortunately is one of the main issues and why I believe a 3rd space is needed. Women are still being made to accept that because someone may pass 100% to some people that they have to accept this too, no matter how this may affect them, or make them feel unsafe. Or have the risk of being told they are bigoted, #unkind etc, and this basically boils down to putting one person's feelings over another's which is never right.

@lemmein I would say that your friend goes into the male prison or a trans wing if it exists. Transwomen are not the only vulnerable persons in a male prison - young men, gay men, ex-policemen, sex offenders - all face risks and deserve personal safety, so it is up to the prison authorities to make this happen rather than shuffle them off to a female prison.

I don't know how to do Twitter links but have a look at @oceanbreathecafe

It details how female prison wardens have to do intimate searches on these men, also a warden has left because of threats on her family.

Absolutely mind blowing. Please Daily Mail, have a look!!!

This is why I think it should be dealt with on a case by case basis. Your friend and ‘Isla’ couldn’t be more different. For your friend this is clearly a life they are committed to. They have lived this way for many years and have had surgery.
‘Isla’ has a sudden revelation while in prison, puts on a wig and leggings and declares they are female.

@SuperShe
That is amazing digging into the truth!
Is there a way you can share this with mainstream news outlets or journalists like Hadley Freeman or Janice Turner? On Twitter or similar? This needs to be out there with the rest of this enormous fuck up.
sunlight!

If the pennine says it's trans you should believe it! Repeat after me, that train is a bus if it says it is!

Repeat after me. Trans Pennines are Pennines. Trans Grampians are Grampians. I can’t believe the hateful turf arguments I read on here. You’re going to lose. Get over your weird obsession with geology and get on the right side of history.

I'm waiting for Transjordan to identify as Cisjordan as a two-finger salute to Winston Churchill.

I hope journalists read that Bluebooh that is awful.

Just want to refer them and everyone else back to Supershe’s smoking gun post at 23.42 yesterday 26 Jan.

SuperShe’s shown that the guidelines were followed in this case ie in line with the SPS policy, “Gender Identity and Gender Reassignment Policy for those in our Custody 2014”.

If you read that document at p26 as Supershe says, women in Scotland remain completely vulnerable to being housed in with men on self ID. Even if a man is risk assessed as a risk to others then according to this guideline he just gets extra prison guard attention and he stays IN THE FEMALE PRISON ESTATE, all because he says he’s actually a woman.

… so whats not to love for these men?

…… the only shocker is why they don’t all do it?

….. the option of self ID into female prison remains alive and well despite yesterday’s front page headlines.

…… all the other male prisoners already enjoying time in female prisons can relax, they won’t be moved out of female prisons,

…. this one individual is only being moved to male estate because media attention happened to fall on him

…. presumably he can challenge that decision legally and then no doubt it will be quietly reversed.

So in accordance with the rules he’ll be back in with women prisoners soon and probably could even claim financial compensation for the experience because he was singled out so unjustly.

It’s sickening.

Until the Scottish government actually reverse the rules, this ‘u turn’ is just a temporary smoke and mirrors distraction.

The Scottish prison service have no apologies to make because they just followed these (disgusting) rules.

In fact they must be furious because the government has made them look bad and they can expect a lawsuit incoming to have to pay to defend that they know they will probably lose.

….unless the Scottish government act to permanently change these rules that women have been warning them about for years…?

theres some good background information here:
murrayblackburnmackenzie.org/2023/01/13/what-does-the-scottish-prison-service-really-think-about-the-gender-recognition-reform-scotland-bill-2/

😄 nicely done

@SuperShe, She Of Sleuthing!! You may find this interesting. He's close, but not as close as you:

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2023/01/26/how-double-rapist-bound-scotlands-toughest-prison-ended-female/

"Scotland’s prisons have quietly been a testbed for radical gender policies for years, following lobbying from the same trans rights activists who pushed Ms Sturgeon to introduce a controversial gender self-identification systemm_, it has emerged.
The SPS overhauled its policies in 2014 to state that a prisoner’s accommodation “should reflect the gender in which the person in custody is currently living”.

I also note:
"The decision was taken by the Scottish Prison Service (SPS), and the Scottish First Minister has insisted she played no role in it.
However, sources with intimate knowledge of how the prison service in Scotland operates said it was inconceivable that SPS bosses would have taken such a monumental decision if they thought it would be strongly opposed by ministers.
Jack McConnell, a former Labour first minister, said on Thursday night: “Let us be absolutely clear. There are no circumstances where this rapist would have been sent to Cornton Vale without ministers knowing.”"

Supershe at 23:42 on 26 Jan for those who missed it:

"Todays rabbit hole led me to the SPS policy, “Gender Identity and Gender Reassignment Policy for those in our Custody 2014”.
I briefly skimmed the first few pages, but ofc got distracted (I blame Twitter 😂)
Then later on, I saw this post and Nicola Sturgeon’s words appeared to contradict what I had read.
I've finally had a chance to read the policy again and, yep, it appears I was right.

Nicola Sturgeon says: "There is no automatic right for a trans woman convicted of a crime to serve their sentence in a female prison even if they have a gender recognition certificate.
Every case is subject to rigorous individual risk assessment and the safety of other prisoners is paramount."

But that is the complete opposite to what the above policy states on how trans identifying males should be dealt with:

“A male-to-female person in custody living permanently as a woman without genital surgery should be allocated to a female establishment. She should not be automatically regarded as posing a high sexual offence risk to other people in custody and should not be subject to any automatic restrictions of her association with other people in custody. However, if there is clear evidence that she, as an individual, may pose a sexual offence risk, then this should be dealt with as for any other person in custody posing a risk. Only where a risk assessment determines it is justified, should she be subject to increased staff supervision or restrictions of her association with other people in custody.” (pg. 26)

Either this woman is a pathological liar or she is completely ignorant about the topic she is spouting rubbish on."

Link to the aforementioned policy: www.sps.gov.uk/nmsruntime/saveasdialog.aspx?fileName=SPSGenderIdentityandGenderReassignmentPolicy20142562_1392.pdf

Also in England, GRC holders can be held in opposite-sex prison estate based on their GRC so this isn’t a Scotland only problem. It’s just way way worse in Scotland due to self ID.
The GRA should just be repealed.
It’s impacting way too much on women’s safety dignity and privacy to justify keeping it. We have the 2010 Equality Act now. Don’t need to keep the GRA going to protect people who undergo gender reassignment.
The UK government already have a duty to foster good relationships between people of protected characteristics under the equality duty. Them retaining GRA is doing the absolute opposite of that.

🚨 this ferret is reversing 🚨

https://twitter.com/greenjennyjones/status/1618682444437393408?s=46&t=soitZqrQEAhrexExCLIKZg

"In 2015 I signed a letter calling for trans women to be housed in the female estate. But that does not include male sexual predators who falsely self ID to insert themselves into a space with vulnerable women."

@lemmein with the greatest respect to your friend, and you, we can’t make law based on individual cases. I know for a fact that my husband is a good man who would never dream of harming anyone, but the fact remains that he is of the sex class that harms women and must therefore be excluded from single sex spaces.

We know the vast majority of teachers have no ill intentions towards children, but we still insist on doing background checks on every single one of them. It is not a sleight against them as a an individual it is about the need to ensure protections for the vulnerable, in this case children, and therefore having to assume that everyone is a potential risk.

The default must always be that a transwoman is housed in the male estate. No exceptions. You make on exception, then you have to fight harder to maintain things for others. As has already been said, there are plenty of men in the male estate considered vulnerable for various reasons. They are housed away from the main population and so it must be with trans individuals.

Transmen can be housed in the female estate, in separate wings if they feel being around women is triggering. But transmen are vulnerable in the male estate too and should not be placed there.

it is not just about the risk that a violent transwoman might pose to women, I’m sure that there are plenty of TW in prison for non-violent offences, but the fact is that the majority of women in prison have experienced some level of male violence and being in the presence of a male, however they present, can be incredibly traumatic for them.

We really need journalists to join the dots now between the TRAs pushing for males in female prisons, the same activists pushing (and being applauded and feted) GRA reform to self ID and the document plan that this is a deliberate strategy. I can’t remember the document name off the top of my head but it clearly records that there would be a deliberate attempt to get male offenders identifying as women into female prisons because if the public accepted that they would accept males identifying as women everywhere.

Can anyone remember name of document and share to relevant people on Twitter (I’m not on it)? I’ve tried to tag KPSS on this post but not working!

Food for thought:

twitter.com/gracebrodie/status/1618759021439389697?s=46&t=we5myS4icLzgPkb7r2NnaA

"So have I got this right?…. the SNP are asking the EU for help against the UK so in Scotland they can house rapists in women’s prisons …. But they aren’t asking for help over the UK Supreme Court denying Scotland’s right to self determination ….. 🤔"

This.

There re many vulnerable men in the male estate - small, "pretty", young, disabled, special needs, addicts, gay - trans identified people are no more nor less vulnerable than the others. It is the responsibility of the prison service to protect the vulnerable as much as they are able.

This must not be done by placing ANY MALES in the female estate, however they identify.

I am a little sceptical that your friend "passes" the way you believe - probably you have just got used to the way he presents and don't notice his masculine features any more - but whether he passes or not, as a male, even if he had had genital "reassignment", he should not be in the female estate.

I personally think that we should stop referring to trans people as "transwomen" or "transmen" - it is confusing and imprecise. "Trans identifying" + natal sex would be much clearer and more accurate.

Excellent post.

So basically there is a risk assessment to confirm whether a risk assessment needs to be carried out on male to female prisoners.?

How does that even work?

Surely it has to be a case by case basis for EVERYONE
Not just 'everyone that there is public outcry over'...

You really don't have to go very far before the whole thing falls apart. Their 'logic' is completely nonsensical

Do you mean the Denton report?
www.spectator.co.uk/article/the-document-that-reveals-the-remarkable-tactics-of-trans-lobbyists/

Or the quote from James Morton of the Scottish Trans Alliance regarding their pushing of self id in Scottish prisons? I've only ever seen that explicitly stated as a quote in an article though the SPS's gender identity policy makes it clear that males will be placed into the female prison estate - www.sps.gov.uk/Corporate/Publications/Publication-2561.aspx

Morton's quote is in the book Trans Britain:

Ah, thank you - I've only ever seen it as a second hand quote so interesting to know the source.