Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

Bully for her growing up in San Francisco*. I know lots of gay men and lesbians, well fewer gay men these days and I can say that very much like the population in general some are great, some are meh and some are totally toxic. The fact that she wants to paint it like fucking Oz or something makes her look like she's trying far too hard or deciding to forget all the arseholes she's met along the way.

I'm so tired of the notion that DSDs are a big part of the population. It's very, very rare and also has nothing to do with being trans. One is an actual physical thing, and the other isn't but because the world has gone mad we treat it with the sort of medical interventions that are all about harm.

I think what's most frustrating and disappointing about the article/letter is that she misrepresents the debate. We, women who haven't drunk the Kool-aid, are painted as being silly and not understanding what's going on at all when her argument is based on wishful thinking and unicorn fantasies.

*Of course, San Francisco, the home of the free-spirited, the rebels and the nonconformers was also the city where in the last hundred years - given that's the timescale she wants to go with - was happy to send loads of their citizens of Japanese descent to prison camps.

I'm hugely disappointed with her. I thought she was better than that.

It's no wonder she needs everything explaining to her.

😆

I guess she doesn't have to worry about lesbian bars, she seems far more invested in socialising with her gay male friends.

So wrong and so hilarious.

My name changed back to my old one?! How bizarre. It's back again now.

Think someone mentioned that there is new feature to avoid sock puppetry so your name reverts to the first one you use in any given thread. Let me look.

There’s an explanation here. Here you go:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/site_stuff/4747622-update-from-mnhq-name-changes

Interesting little article from the USA by someone who sounds very like my niece-who-is-now-my-nephew, only who didn't do anything to her body:

quillette.com/2022/01/23/i-wanted-transition-to-solve-my-problems/

A strong preference for the toys, games, or activities stereotypically used or engaged in by the other gender.

My favorite toys were action figures, dinosaur figurines, sports equipment, and fake weapons

This was a girl I knew at school, in spades. Ditto a preference for short hair and trousers. Her parents just let her get on with it and she turned out to be gay.

Has anyone had a go with ChatGPT yet? I wonder what the answer to "What is a woman?" comes out as.

ChatGPT has been tested, and found thoroughly Stonewalled.

Oh shit!

😆

I met the daughter of my son's best friend yesterday. She's almost 12. She has her hair cut short and boyish and wore a sweatshirt and jeans and a wool hat pulled down over her hair. But - and I enjoyed this because she's a great kid - there was no name change or discussion of her choices. She just is who she is and presents as she likes and that's fine.

What response did you get? I got this

"A woman is an adult female human being. Women have specific biological characteristics that distinguish them from men, such as the ability to bear children, typically having a lower center of gravity, and generally having a higher percentage of body fat. However, it's important to remember that gender is a complex concept that encompasses more than just biological sex. Gender is also shaped by cultural and societal factors, as well as personal identity and expression. Women are an integral part of society and contribute in a wide variety of ways to families, communities, and the world at large. It's important to recognize and celebrate the diversity and unique qualities of all women."

That's not too bad - perhaps it's improving. Although I suspect a lot depends on exactly what question you ask. A lot I've seen are very waffly and TWAW.

Twitter has just introduced me to this story, which I hadn’t seen before:

opentable.lgbt/our-blog/2021/2/1/lgbt-history-month-meet-meet-world-champion-athlete-mark-weston-who-gave-up-titles-won-in-good-faith

What struck me was that it was a TRA using it to show how much more accepting people were of transition in the past. Completely missing the fact that the demands were different too. Mark gave up his titles won as a woman, because he didn’t consider it fair.

A MN thread introduced me to Dylan Mulvaney yesterday - OMFG. I was revolted. As others have said, he’s like a vicious parody. What people will do for Tiktok fame, eh?

Just wait until you see Jeffrey Marsh...

<rushes off to google>

Poor Dylan Mulvaney is so excluded that he got to go to the Grammies. The pain. Through other channels I've become slightly obsessed with his "journey" and find him incredibly creepy. Not as creepy as Jeffrey Marsh, however, who has the eyes of sadistic murderer. Both of them seem to be obsessed with tampons and a tampon company took on Marsh as a brand influencer.

@MmePoppySeedDefage thanks for that article, it's a great read.

He's doing a good job of peaking people - teenage girls in particular. They don't like being mocked.

Jeffrey has proper scary eyes and always seems to be speaking through gritted teeth.

He is also having the spotlight shone on him at long last. Tiktokkers are on to him. Here are two, but there are loads:

twitter.com/hatpinwoman/status/1627307254650134528?s=61&t=_6CB-wfoERo-ts30ufNZIA

twitter.com/xxclusionary/status/1628603628977270786?s=61&t=_6CB-wfoERo-ts30ufNZIA

Jeffrey Marsh is the wolf in Red Riding Hood's granny's clothes. WHAT big teeth you have Grandma!