Women's rights general conversations - Thread 3

[Kucinghitam]

Continuation of Thread 2.

There is so much excellent information and so many active discussions on FWR that I wondered if it would be useful to have a thread to sort of "cross-fertilise" between them - airing little thoughts or vignettes that wouldn't themselves merit their own thread, to highlight other posts/threads of particular interest or to point to notable developments on fast-moving threads so that casual observers know where to look.

(For example, "the X thread has meandered onto a fascinating discussion of Y" or "Poster P's amazing analysis on thread Z might have relevance to the scenario in thread W" or "Has anybody noticed this recurring theme that keeps coming up??" or even "Random bloke asked me to smile while I was choosing onions, grr"- that sort of thing).

It's not really something to joke about, but it is funny in a way, the Graun floundering about, high-viz departures making a stir, unfortunate timing of Isla making their position look even drafter, events...

Some great gotchas in the responses too. I wonder if the poster might be onto something who suggested the G might be flying a kite to unload OJ.

The easy way to get rid of him is to start having some nuance and to stop accepting the whole pseudoscientific gender ideology bullshit as troooot. He'd be off before they'd finished typing "Maybe JKR isn't completely wrong after all."

Here's something that could pretty much out an end to TERFy protest. It's so widely drawn and I can't see the cops not using it, especially against KJK.

Part 2 of this Bill introduces a new civil order – Serious Disruption Prevention Orders (SDPOs) – that can be imposed on individuals who have carried out (or contributed to another person carrying out) activities relating to at least two protests within a five-year period, whether or not they have been convicted of a crime.[9] They can last anywhere from one week to two years, with the potential to be renewed indefinitely...

...It is difficult to imagine a situation where someone’s actions would not somehow fall within the conditions under which someone could be given an SDPO

www.statewatch.org/news/2023/january/uk-stop-the-public-order-bill/

Gaaaah!

"put an end", not "out an end".

Maybe I’m being naive, but that reads more as if it is aimed at people glueing themselves to motorways and tube trains, rather than assembling in a public place having notified the police as KJK does. Still looks to be a shitty variant of PSPO or ASBO though. Don’t like them, but think unless FWS or SFW start using Just Stop Oil or XR tactics Women’s Rights campaigners have little to fear.

It's aimed at everybody.

Im hoping a get together in a square or park would not constitute “Serious disruption”. Surely that refers to blocking roads/bridges etc.

Yes and even if it's supposed to be aimed at Just Stop Oil etc, they'll misuse it against ordinary protesters; just look at how councils used the Prevention of Terrorism Act to snoop on people trying to get their kids into better schools.

I think the intention of that law is to stop serious disruption of the type that blocks motorways and significantly disrupts people going about their normal business.

The problem is that after a few years it could easily be argued that serious disruption is blocking a public square with a large demonstration requiring police support.

After all, the GRA was definitely absolutely only relevant to a tiny number of people with a diagnosis of gender dysphoria and even changing someone's legal sex "for all purposes" had limits. Yet here we are with Sturgeon insisting that the important thing about a rapist is that "she" is an individual.

I have to say I am loving the pics and reporting of Kellie Jay Keen's demo on Sunday. And the atmosphere at the pub after looks amazing.

twitter.com/roseveniceallan/status/1622303749187244038?s=20&t=LfIat8uiVRCeIsBvXYIlVg

There's always mission creep. The powers are sweeping. It will end in tears.

carried out (or contributed to another person carrying out) activities relating to at least two protests

Nothing there about 'violent' or 'disruptive' protests.

Standing silently with a sign is a protest. Giving someone a piece of cardboard that they make into the sign is contributing to that activity.

I've been to protests that were poetry readings in bookshops - organised by the bookshop owner, after closing time. In nobody's way, but still a protest.

Even signing a petition could be seen as encouraging - and therefore contributing to - any demonstration about the same cause.

As Mach says, this covers anyone who raises any objection to anything.

The anti-Brexit marches were completely peaceful, and nobody glued themseleves to anything, but were disruptive protests. I stood outside city hall to protest against the prorogation of parliament - there were 2 speeches, no chanting, no counter-protest, and it was a wide bit of pavement so people could walk round us without having to step into the road. But it was a protest. I could easily be given one of these orders.

SDPOs remind me very much of South African banning orders. The legislation appears so loosely worded that merely tweeting "good luck" could get one perma-banned. The police (those who seem unable to spot killers and rapists in the ranks) get to decide what you can and can't do.

The police (those who seem unable to spot killers and rapists in the ranks) get to decide what you can and can't do.

Indeed. What could possibly go wrong?

Interesting that BCP’s strip club has been ruled unlawful because it failed to consider sex equality impacts:

www.bournemouthecho.co.uk/news/23302311.bcp-councils-strip-club-policy-adoption-decision-unlawful/

*Strip club policy

Happy to clarify that the council is not running its own strip clubs yet.

It appears that the Welsh Assembly has looked at the mess that Scotland has made of self-id and decided to have a go themselves. I wonder if they’ll learn anything from the public reaction to the Scottish debate or go full out for a “hold my beer” approach.

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64548844.amp

<Puts crisp £5 note on option 2>

God what is happening. Why are governments so obsessed with this when polling shows increasingly that voters aren’t that keen and there is an obvious clash with women’s rights? It’s as if they’re being held at gun point.

Seems that I missed that at least one thread has already started to discuss the Welsh:

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4737389-welsh-government-barging-ahead-scottish-style-lgbtq-plan

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4737482-wales-am-i-living-in-a-parallel-universe?

as to why it’s happening, surely the root cause is the forced teaming of LGB with TQ+, ie conflation of sexuality with identity, and the highjacking of the fact that we are so very nearly there on achieving full LGB rights in the U.K. and majority public acceptance that LGB rights are a good and necessary thing.

LGB Alliance have been stymied from the start, so as much as it is painful, we need the Welsh to go ahead with their plans to keep the public debate going. I have no doubt that there will be future examples of egregious safeguarding failures too that make people stop and think.

as to why it’s happening, surely the root cause is the forced teaming of LGB with TQ+, ie conflation of sexuality with identity, and the highjacking of the fact that we are so very nearly there on achieving full LGB rights in the U.K. and majority public acceptance that LGB rights are a good and necessary thing.

Conflation of sexuality with identity: absolutely this. Added to muddying the waters re the definitions of sex and gender.

Dennis Noel Kavanagh (crim barrister) made the point on Twitter that

1. the WA have even less chance than the SG of bringing this into law because they don't have the devolved powers to do this and the UK Gov has already said it will not devolve those powers and
2. if the WA carry on with their plans, it will link Labour explicitly to the irresponsible self-ID policy.

And like pps I just don't understand how they can look at the shitshow in Scotland and think, yay, come on, lads - that could be us!

Ooh should I have referred to the Welsh Government? I do apologise to our Welsh Mumsnetters if so.

This isn't really FWR, but just something I wanted to share. I was at home today waiting for a plumber and when he turned up, he had a young woman apprentice with him. She was tiny and very slight, but had a determined look to her. I saw her walk up the path behind the plumber and when she saw me, her face did something lovely, it lit up with a huge smile. I may be imagining it, but I got a strong impression she was glad there was a woman at the door.

I have Glosswitch's Hags on pre order as of one minute ago. Can't wait to read it.

Ah, just read the Epsom headteacher’s husband killed the three of them. It was my first instinct anyway when the news broke, and I bet many of you as well.