Welsh Government barging ahead Scottish style LGBTQ+ plan

[Chersfrozenface]

I see the stupid Welsh Government (Welsh Labour+ Plaid Cymru) has announced its LBGTQ+ Action Plan.

Welsh Government announcement
www.gov.wales/wales-sets-out-ambitious-plan-hope-its-heart-reach-goal-becoming-most-lgbtq-friendly-nation-europe

Interestingly, the WG announcement doesn't mention changing gender, but the BBC News website story makes that the headline
www.bbc.com/news/uk-wales-64548844

The only version of the action plan I can find is the one consulted on in 2021
www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/consultations/2021-07/lgbtq%2B-action-plan.pdf

It seems to me that the BBC has noticed what is happening in Scotland and smells a story in Wales. It also seems to me that the WG, which must have noticed, has decided it can barge ahead with this. Why? Because there are no women's prisons in Wales and the pesky rapist scenario won't arise? Do they think that's the only potential problem?

Where does wales send its female criminals? To England presumably? So even more of a reason for the English prison service to have an opinion?
I think they are trying to rush it through before anyone notices

Agreed, I think they are in a rush to push this through before anyone notices.

But this is more noticeable than ever because of what is happening in Scotland. What is wrong with our politicians? They lack any kind of self awareness. Across the board.

Very biased reporting from the BBC but they seem to have interviewed only young people who support it. What rights are bisexual people lacking? Nonbinary people are not a third sex. Legislation shouldnt have imaginary categories. It's an awful piece

on our shared ambition for Wales to be the most LGBTQ+ friendly nation in Europe

which was exactly the language the Scottish Government used about their gender ideology position. They explicitly stated they wanted to be the most progressive nation in the world. This is the same. It’s literal identity politics on a national scale. What matters is the marketed identity of the party in power, not the evidence base for the policy.

There are no rights under attack for LGB people in the UK. All there is are women stopping their sex based rights being removed. How dare they re-write reality in this way.

The totally inadequate so-called "Integrated Equality Impact Assessment" on the consultation document just has this to say about under the EA2010 protected characteristic of Sex.

"The Welsh Government has assessed the potential impacts on women’s rights and, in considering provision set out in Schedule 3 of the Equality Act 2010, is of the view that support for trans people and publishing an LGBTQ+ Action Plan will not result in the erosion of the rights of women and girls. Instead, the draft LGBTQ+ Action Plan forms part of our approach to strengthen equality
and human rights protections for everyone. Extending non-binary and trans-inclusive protections through the LGBTQ+ Action Plan sits in line with the obligations laid down by the United Nations Convention on the Elimination of All Forms of Discrimination against Women (CEDAW)"

Under 'Religion and Belief' is says
"The draft LGBTQ+ Action Plan may affect matters concerning freedoms of expression on the grounds of belief and faith. However, while the right to hold a belief is absolute, the right to manifest a religious or philosophical is a qualified one. The draft plan’s interference with the latter may be necessary in a democratic society in the interest of public safety, health or morals, or
protecting the rights and freedoms of others."

Very biased and probably not correct (IANAL). And no mention at all on impacts on women of particular religions.
.
www.gov.wales/sites/default/files/consultations/2021-08/lgbtq%2B-action-plan-integrated-impact-assessment_0.pdf

The Welsh Government has assessed the potential impacts on women’s rights and, in considering provision set out in Schedule 3 of the Equality Act 2010, is of the view that support for trans people and publishing an LGBTQ+ Action Plan will not result in the erosion of the rights of women and girls

I think they are, hopefully, being clear that the right to single sex spaces based on biological sex, will be preserved. IIRC that is contained in the EA2010?

And people need to question and push this point so they are clear about their intentions here.

The sad part is that if they did this properly (acknowledge sex as well as gender and spell out where sex matters) it could actually be a good thing.

Take away the stigma of men wearing anything other than the dullest of suits (except Hawaiian shirts on holiday) while retaining women's rights and safeguarding.

Otherwise it just becomes a neon sign for perverts to gather from across the lands.

Does the Welsh Government think that this issue is really at the forefront of people's minds? It's just their own pet project, no one outside Cardiff is that interested. They give more money to Stonewall than Scotland! Wales is very diverse and non judgemental anyway from what I see living here.

Actually, I think that is very weaselly.

It says "support for trans people and publishing an LGBTQ+ Action Plan will not result in the erosion of the rights of women and girls".

It does not say that implementing the actions listed in the plan will not result in the erosion of the rights of women and girls.

But what we really need is clarity? so it is worth asking and pushing

They will either continue to fudge or admit that yes, it will have an effect on single sex spaces (for eg) in which case we know where we stand.

Or they will confirm that, yes, the provisions in EA 2010 for single sex spaces will be upheld. Get it in writing.

Some people are already interested.

And it will only take a high-profile incident like the transgender sexual offenders debacle in Scotland to make a lot of other people very, very interested.

This is indeed a pet project, but to think that it won't affect ordinary people outside Cardiff is unrealistic.

Shouldn't be surprised really because Welsh Government's transparency on consultations has been abandoned over the last few years; but the consultation on the draft plan closed on 22 Oct 2021 and the responses and the analysis of them have still not been published 15 months later. Not aware that they took on board calls for them to include groups like LGB Alliance Cymru in consultation on the final version of the plan either. They've stuck with the tiny clique of Cardiff-based campaigners, some of whom seem hate filled and deranged, and kept their fingers firmly in their ears.

No faith in them having learnt anything from Scotland. Hope there are some positive commitments in the plan, but very much doubt it will be good for women and girls, especially lesbians.

The trouble with the EA provisions is that they only allow some single sex spaces, they don't oblige bodies and institutions to provide them.

Take school toilets, You can say that the EA allows schools to provide single sex toilets. It doesn't require schools to provide them.

In Wales, the WG's own good practice guide (2017) says "The regulations also require toilet areas for male and female learners over the age of eight to be separate." (The regulations referred to are the Education (School Premises) Regulations 1999.) The guide does say "Consideration of the rights of transgender learners should be made with regard to school toilets."

So schools could abide by the regulations and would be allowed by the EA to have single sex toilets and could also provide mixed sex toilets which would make (sic) "consideration of the rights of transgender learners". *

But no, many schools are installing mixed sex toilets only.

*Incidentally, I would like to know exactly what they mean by "the rights of transgender learners".

Fair point. But i was under the impression that at least some schools / places were not providing single sex spaces because they think they're not allowed.
So at least that gives clarity.

I just think that if we know these things are coming up in parliament we have to do the thinking out loud and in advance and keep pushing. At least then people know what is coming.

If they're doing surveys, for eg, i think people know the "kind" thing to say is "yes, transwomen in women's spaces are fine" but when the question is "pre-op" or "no intention to have op" (and i must say here that i don't blame trans women or trans men for not wanting surgeries) the tolerance is much much lower. Specifics are key.

However, while the right to hold a belief is absolute, the right to manifest a religious or philosophical is a qualified one. The draft plan’s interference with the latter may be necessary in a democratic society in the interest of public safety, health or morals, or
protecting the rights and freedoms of others.
🙄
Wtf?

Plaid also backing this in a vague way on FB this morning. Response comment was bullshit.

Drakeford doesn't even consult other labour members about his plans. Everything is decided before it reaches the chamber. Fait accomplis.

I have no confidence in Welsh Government's ability to protect women's rights. The responses from Ministers to letters from the various women and LGB groups haven't been reassuring. In fact the boilerplate text sounds as if they've been taking advice from Stonewall, not their own lawyers.

Judging by an image I saw yesterday from a recent letter (this month) from Jane Hutt, the Communities Minister their understanding of the Equality Act and the single-sex exceptions is still dire. In fact, @Chersfrozenface, it sounds like our government want to see the end of genuinely single-sex services and spaces in Wales. They still say 'no evidence' and still think case-by-case means at an individual, not a service or space, level. It's not looking good for women.

It’s as though there’s nothing else happening in the world bar this ideology isn’t it 🤔

it’s almost as though it’s an easy thing to focus on when you can’t do anything actionable on the other millionth thing that’s grinding your people down into poverty. Stick a rainbow sticker on it and all will be well.

@EnfysPreseli I see that Jane Hutt cites the far-from-fragrant Victor Madrigal-Borloz, UN Independent Expert on sexual orientation and gender identity but not Reem Alsalem, UN Special Rapporteur on violence against women and girls, its causes and consequences.

Which tells us all we need to know, really.

I have been worrying about this for a while. My concern is that as with the Greens, Plaid is being used as a way for people with a specific agenda to implement that more easily. It is easier to be a big fish in Wales.

I've come to the conclusion that if I'm wrong and when i die there is in fact a hell it won't be a pit of eternal fire. It will be Rainbows and pink and aghhhhhhhh.

God I'm so sick of this shit!

I took all my concerns about this and other matters to my AM/MS (Labour) who is sticking with TWAW still, despite all the evidence I've provided in many visits over the years. He says there's nothing to worry about because Westminster has even more powers here in Wales than Scotland and will stop anything too radical from happening.

But we've already got a Welsh state-sponsored gender indoctrination plan being rolled out in our schools (and being pursued very zealously by some of them, according to parents I talk to) and we have a totally bought-in media, including BBC Wales, that refuses to carry anything critical of the Welsh gender revolution experiment.

This, folks, is what you get after nearly 25 years in a complacent single party state. Senedd representatives who don't feel any need to represent what their constituents are concerned about. I'm naturally a Labour voter, but I'll vote Tory at the next Welsh election because I can see how bloody badly Wales needs shaking up. Our schools perform worst in the UK, some Welsh hospitals are a disgrace but look — the Welsh Government is succeeding in telling lies to children about changing sex, so that's okay.

Meanwhile the status of actual woman in Wales is in crisis according to a new report discussed by the BBC.

"Shamefully, there has been no clear decrease in women's level of risk," it says.
"Women continue to face greater risk of poverty, social exclusion and financial hardship.
"We continue to make little progress in tackling violence against women, domestic abuse and sexual violence with specialist support services facing even greater demand."

Women in Wales 'decades away from equality - Chwarae Teg
www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-wales-64532345?

Chwarae Teg are great for drawing attention to this however they have no idea what a woman actually is sadly. Because they follow the gender line.

The Senedd can easily give away women's rights actually helping poor women is way more difficult and expensive. This does not bode well at all.

Meanwhile they are trying to bankrupt the group that questioned and took legal action over their education policy. Don't agree with all PCPW stances but the way the Welsh government are trying to crush any parents that question their policies is messed up.
www.publicchildprotectionwales.org/press-release

No question about it things do not look great in Wales. Welsh Labour are like the SNP in their fanaticism only they are way more efficient in carrying it out so far.

The sad thing is the only thing that can stop this I suspect it is some horrific scandal involving abuse and violence. Removing safeguarding means something terrible will happen, probably already is. We might not hear about it for years, there will be cover ups and by then lives will be ruined.

I wish I lived in anywhere but Wales. I love my country, but this is a step too far!