Complications from trans surgery!

[Ihatedonuts]

I know it's a daily mail article but I can't help thinking. We only ever hear positive stories but the figures tell us this. I really hope the men and woman are getting the support they need from these complications. 🥺

Half of trans surgery patients suffer pain, sexual issues years later mol.im/a/11629421 via dailym.ai/android

That article is very clearly not about all trans people after surgery. It's about those that had problems. It even states it may be biased. So it's half of the people who reported symptoms had pain. There could have been 100s who reported no issues at all.

Is the issue not that all those who reported problems were so desperate for surgery they went abroad to places where the procedures aren't as good??

Yes but I feel research needs to be done into those that experience pain and problems and also the risks highlighted clearly. More study is needed.

It depends what you mean by abroad. Thailand seems to have quite a lot of expertise in these surgeries so many people go there. They tightened up their regulations a few years ago after a mum took her 16 yr old for the penile inversion/vaginoplasty- it is now strictly over 18s.

Many Children’s Hospitals in America now market their surgeries to minors - mainly the double mastectomy (I think penile inversion/vaginoplasty is limited to 17/18 yr olds) - which in some states is fine as young as 12 and 13. Some of these hospitals do not offer any counselling or therapy they will just recommend puberty blockers and surgery, often at the first appt for gender confused children.

One surgeon in the US markets her services to minors using groovy Tiktok videos, dancing around talking about ‘yeeting the teets’ and also operates on morbidly obese patients that have been refused surgery elsewhere.

One patient went public recently as she nearly died from sepsis and complications (6 inches of necrotic tissue and a gaping hole) due to this doctors actions and lack of follow up support - the doctor was very flippant when she requested advice. This doctor appears to have performed surgery on thousands of young people.

To save money some go for the nipple free option where they end up with a large scar across their entire chest. As their bodies were still growing we have seen instances of this scar stretching vertically and creating an inch wide jagged line across the chest.

This is happening to teenage girls who are too young to get a tattoo, drink or have sex.

Could be. But here's a thing to consider. 20-30% of women who have mastectomies for breast cancer suffer with Post-Mastectomy Pain Syndrome afterward, according to the American Cancer Society. Do 20-30% of American breast cancer patients go abroad for cancer treatment? I don't think so.

Post-mastectomy pain is an integral risk of mastectomies, because surgery intrinsically risks nerve damage. It may be that mastectomies for cancer are higher risk for nerve damage than elective cosmetic double mastectomies, but there is no logical reason why elective double mastectomies would be zero risk at all. Especially as I know explicitly of female transitioners who have post-mastectomy pain syndrome.

www.healthline.com/health/breast-cancer/postmastectomy-pain-syndrome

I completely agree, but where do we draw the line? There’s an argument that those who have more and more cosmetic surgery are influenced by their own poor mental health and SM - yet they are consenting adults, should we be stopping them?

There has to be a point where adults are allowed to make their own decisions, as long as they are fully informed of the risks.
At the same time no one should be telling the lie to any trans person that they’ll literally change sex (have seen this many times), telling vulnerable children that anyone questioning their trans status hates them and wants them dead (looking at you, Mermaids) is despicable, allowing men to legally become women should never have been allowed, using children (most autistic/neglected/abused) as pawns and damaging them along the way should never have been allowed.

India Willoughby recently pointed out that nobody knows what it feels like to be trans - well equally, women have been pointing out for years that no one can know what it feels like to be a woman. No man can live as a woman without resorting to regressive stereotypes that I thought we’d left well behind, yet here we are, gender stereotypes are here and bigger than ever, and hurting our children and limiting their freedom of expression - girls? you want short hair? Are you sure you’re not a boy?

Around 2016 I watched a series of YT videos made by a male detransitioner - he told his story in 4 videos and in 2 languages. I was lucky to see them as he soon took them down due to harassment. Maybe one day he will put them back up.

Anyway, he was clearly a very intelligent, articulate, thinking, educated man. Yet he totally believed that he could change sex. Gender ideology told him he could change sex, everyone around him & doctors told him he could change sex and this highly intelligent man believed these surgeries & hormones would turn him into a woman. . He describes how he "woke up", thankfully Shortly before his booked irreversible surgery. He was shocked & terrified how this had happened to him. He started detransitioning and accepted he was an effeminate gay man, albeit one in deep shock about how he nearly had these surgeries.

It's a pity the videos have been taken down. He spoke very eloquently about what he had been through- truly shocking how brain washed he had been & how everyone around him participated in that.

Who on earth would think there was no risk of these kind of problems after bottom surgery?? Surely it's obvious? And these risks should be explained before surgery anyway??

Scott Newgent (ftm trans) is on FB and speaks about the complications that she has suffered, that nearly killed her.

“Bottom surgery” / “top surgery”: let’s call a spade a spade here, please.

The op was specifically asking post surgery though.

I'm now interested in the history of "bottom surgery" how new is it? I imagine it's been done quite a few times now? I guess from where people have been born with ambiguous genitalia.

They are not mentally well when they make these decisions. They are also too young to understand the irreversible nature of their decisions.

The surgeries are done mostly on physically healthy people who happen to have a mental health condition.

It bears repeating: how is this different to the lobotomies of old?

Wasn’t Vincent van Gogh considered to be mentally unstable when he tried to cut off his own ear? He even painted a self portrait with bandages around his head.

It’s monumental self harm being pushed and validated and glossed over and re-branded as a lifestyle choice, as a way to form an “identity”.

“Bottom surgery” my arse.

Surgery is mostly reserved for attempting to cure medical problems, e.g. removing infected or cancerous or badly damaged body parts. It's also used to re-model certain body parts which are causing pain or affecting body function because of the way they have developed, e.g. breast reduction to help with back pain. It's used for cosmetic purposes, e.g. to try to improve the look and function of badly burned skin, or to remove a large birthmark which other people have commented on, leading to distress in the patient.

Surgery on healthy body parts for other reasons should surely be banned. Surgery to try to resolve a psychological problem is doomed to failure if the underlying issues aren't resolved. Learning to live with reality, e.g. being female or male, is an essential life skill, and anyone struggling with it needs skilled therapy and support from mental health professionals. Decades ago surgeons did lobotomies without having any real idea of what they were doing, and that didn't cure the severe psychiatric illnesses the patients were diagnosed with. Surely the medical profession should have learned from that!

Most people with differences of sexual development do not require surgery. The number of cases where a baby is born with ambiguous genitalia is minuscule. There can't be enough of these cases for surgeons to have built up the kind of expertise which is now routine in, say, cardiovascular surgery, where every major teaching hospital is carrying out complex operations and procedures on dozens of patients every week, so lots of surgeons can be trained.

The vast majority of transwomen do not have 'bottom surgery' - something like 85% do not have it. This Daily Mail report from Canada shows some of the reasons why. It is therefore referring to a tiny number of people undertaking the surgery, if fewer than 0.5% of the population is trans, and only 15% of that very small number actually has the surgery. My concern is that transwomen are able, while being physically intact males, to infiltrate women's prisons, hospital wards, cloakrooms, changing rooms, refuges, sports etc. While most are respectful individuals trying to live their lives as quietly as possible, there are others who are sexual deviants who get their pleasure out of offending and possibly assaulting women.

Yes I can't imagine there are many training opportunities

“Surgery on healthy body parts for other reasons should surely be banned.”

would you include face lifts, breast enlargement, buttock implants etc in that?

Personally, I would, yes. I think we'd all be a lot better off if we stopped trying to get a fantasy version of ourselves and learned to love our bodies as they are.

If you think it’s ok for 12 year old girls to have a mastectomy, and then these people suffer life long disabilities due to surgery that they didn’t need in the first place, I’m more than happy to be called transphobic. Hell, I will wear my terf badge with pride

Every single post here is expressing distress at the treatment of trans people. If caring for trans people is transphobia, god help your warped view of the world.

Our vaginas are muscular, flexible, self-lubricating and self-cleaning. Our clitorises are amazing and extend far beyond what can be seen. Men really don't appreciate the marvels of the female body. They think we're just holes to be penetrated, don't they?

This gets to the heart of something I find deeply upsetting about all of this. We know there is a clash of rights around transwomen, but what really bothers me is the disgustingly simplistic way 'being a woman' is framed by TRAs. It's just clothes, hair, make-up. It utterly fails to realise how incredible a woman's body is - how complex, how tough, how generally marvellous. And this is because the TRA narrative is mostly pushed by men, but backed up by very angry and strange women who seem to have accepted that women are just a series of holes.

Every single post? Really?

Did the dismissive "oh well" on the front page and the deleted posts totally pass you by?

This is very true but I’d be more inclined to believe it if the gender clinics were not deliberately avoiding gathering any data on this and are notoriously bad on follow up and sometimes even aftercare (see my other comment about the patient that nearly died with huge amounts of necrosis after surgery).

As with all things related to these issues, there is an avoidance of gathering data. Many detranistioners report feeling abandoned by their clinics who were previously so eager to rush them through surgery. The NHS Tavistock (being shut down because it was found to have too many unsafe practices) had an ideal opportunity to gather lots of data on young transitioners and their outcomes - not just directly related to surgery but the whole proves. In ten years and thousands of patients, they failed. Despite being given government funding to do the research, for some reason it was suppressed and prevented by the people in charge at the Tavistock.

So I think it is safe to assume that the problems and injuries we are seeing are the tip of the iceberg. As we saw with the patient I mentioned previously, she was reluctant to come forward. Anyone that goes public with trans surgery related problems received huge abuse from parts of the trans community. They risk losing their trans support network and may be excommunicated. Some feel utterly lost and their health is harmed and the gender clinics don’t want to know.

If it was all so good and full of rosy outcomes, don’t you think they’d want to prove it transparently to everyone to justify the huge amounts of money ($billions across US, Canada, UK, Europe) this is costing the healthcare systems?