UK Government confirms it will block Scottish GRR

[IwantToRetire]

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-64288757

Goodness, Maggie Chapman is something, isn't she? Incoherent, babbling, foolish and frankly too stupid to be trusted with a toaster, never mind a govt position.

That was a BRILLIANT interview!

She looked like a startled goose when challenged, and couldn't form a coherent sentence, never mind argue a point.

How the hell did she get into govt? Who is she blackmailing?

Watching BBC1
Apparently the census shows 96,000 transmen and transwomen. Yes but again BEEB pretty disingenuous given the total figure was nearly 500k identifying as "trans"

Literally transphobia to suggest only transmen and transwomen are trans.

Is 260K 'nearly 500K' nowadays? I lose track ...

That new LGBT correspondent (sorry forgot her name) is a bit more nuanced than Ben Hunter. She at least interviewed For Women Scotland.
Iain Dale just replied to me on twitter, said no Scottish feminists rang up ..

Maggie Chapman talking about a whole group she's calling 'transpeople', and why we have to listen to them, when she's just approved legislation that removes any meaningful criteria for being a 'transperson.'

Who is she actually talking about? random people who fill out a form send off a
fee??

It's really quite hard to listen to such idiocy. And frightening that anyone like that has even the smallest power.

Can't help but feel Sturgeon is using this issue as a politics game to get the youth on her side as a way of to demonstrating to the youth that Westminster are controlling and interfering....I think the UK government are actually right on this one.

I can’t put into words how delighted I am by this, although of course dreading how Sturgeon and her band will try and twist it to her benefit.
Scotland will never heal while she is FM.

How great is that 🥳 After our MSP’s voting to allow sex offenders to self-ID as women - NS will be spitting chips!!

Alister Jack for PM.

Never heard of him before but I already like him.

Maggie Chapman is not the sharpest tool in the box and doesn’t care about women or girls. I totally agree with you, it is very scary that people like her hold any power over us!!

That Maggie Chapman interview ..
I might be a bit hacked off with Iain Dale, but Tom Swarbrick can go to the top of the LBC class!
Absolutely unhinged.

Well this will be interesting. I think this was always Sturgeon's plan, to force a stand off so she can say the will of the Scottish peoplebis being suppressed, etc.

Question is whether this is bad enough legislation to make enough indy supporters not vote SNP. Because that is ultimately what is needed or this won't stop - it'll just come post referendum. And on the face of it, it's a great topic, plays right in to her liberal lefty Scottish utopia.

A huge amount hinges on how much of the reality of this bill can be made public and really openly discussed.

Fuck!! she actually came out and said that she wants to explore very young children to have official capacity to change ‘sex.

She is very dangerous.

Sorry, not sorry to burst your wee bubble but it won’t pass.
Young people are growing out of this fad and one day will look back and go “ WTF was I thinking? “
Women aren’t going anywhere, we will carry on just as we have been but just for today we can be glad & feel vindicated. Women Won’t Wheesht 💚🤍💜💪

Anyway, here is to months of discussion. Months of debates. Months of sunlight.

brilliant stuff.

I cannot believe that they think that because they wrote ‘this bill will not impact the EA’ that they fully believe it won’t ? Just saying it doesn’t make it true. How very bizarre.

This is absolutely fantastic... SO MUCH SUNLIGHT IS COMING. Finally everyone is going to be talking about this issue. I wonder how the bbc will cover it.. I can't imagine them undermining Westminster too much, which means they will have to report on the issues around letting men pretend to be women... And then everyone will know what an absolute shit show it is. The trans train is about to derail.

I cannot believe that people vote for such numpties. I know that Westminster has its range of shysters and spivs but they are usually classed with brains.

The SNP are either so partial that they have given up legislating properly, or they are very very stupid. I assume it's the first. They will lose any JR they bring. It must be tiring being the Lord Advocate for NS.

One of the problems is the Lord Advocate in Scotland also works as an advisor to the Scottish Government...
If this does go to court the SG will have to provide all their legal advice from whatever source.

I think all the press coverage and even this thread shows that one of the problems is the lack of shared understanding of the EA SSE - made worse that Stonewall etc., have deliberately mislead those who listen to them, that SSE means someone with a GRC is counted as literally being of the other sex and so a trans woman can have access to women only spaces as provided for under the SSE.

This is NOT true. And Lady Haldane's ruling made clear that SSE could be enforced where appropriate but "for all other purpses" someone with a GRC was the other sex.

And not only did Lady Haldane's ruling confirm that single sex exeptions means biological sex, but Shona Robison did as well.

So I am wondering what the conflict is with the EA.

Even if hundreds of 16 year olds boys get a GRC saying they are female, under the EA they cant access women only spaces. Although as we know in Scotland they choose not to enforce the SSE or threaten to withold funding.

The Policy Exchange article doesn't even seem to know about single sex exemptions and is about as much use as a wet sponge in a thunderstorm.

So dont understand why in the letter to Nicola Sturgeon and Shona Robison Alister Jack refers to the impact of the Scottish bill in relation to single sex spaces. The Scottish Bill does not, and could not, change these.
twitter.com/joshparry/status/1615042783353655298/photo/1

My only hope out of this is that all these people who are only just after years of women campaigning and complaining will begin to understand that the EA exemptions are the wrong way round. ie the norm should be that single sex means biological sex and any exemptions should be the few occassions that a GRC would be valid. (Just shows how high in people's esteem women are that the EA was drafted as it was.)

Unfortunately I think we will not get any where because it will be high jacked by those who think there are bigger issues, ie the constitutional one in the same way as all the left gets all self righteous about the Met police and violence against women, as though only men in the Met are abusers of women.

Have heard the news on a few more entertainment radio stations and they are all reporting that the Tories are blocking a Scottish bill that would have made it easier for young people to trans.

Though have enjoyed BBC reporters having to talk about the single sex spaces - am surprised the BBC's LGBTQI+ vetting scheme let them say this out loud. Isn't it deemed "literal violence"?

Isn't it vastly more fundamental than that - which is that the GRR as it relates to reserved power, which may impede national law, ie the operation of the Equalities Act, because there would be an immediate clash as to whether the rest of the UK had to accept self ID, which makes no allowance for this in the EA?

It may be that the bill seeks to say it does not affect the EA as it may operate in Scotland. But you cannot say the same for the rest of the UK.

UK constitutional law is supreme. It says that the Equality Act must apply as stated by Westminster. Scotland has neither the power as a reserved matter or constitutionally to unilaterally introduce self ID in a way that would alter the operation of the law in the rest of the UK. Bloody good thing too.

Quick response but need to think more.

I was basing what I said on the letter explaining why the Scottish Law is being challenged and it refers to single sex spaces etc., rather than the clash of different avenues to a GRC,

Although yes if the basis of a GRC is not shared do they all have the same status. But would have thought this isn't just about the EA but more how can we have the UK wide GRA and the Scottish GRR (hope I have got all the initials right).

So will be interesting to see the list the UK Government is going to update about which GRC's issued in other countries will be accepted as "valid" in the UK.

Wonder if they will exclude all those issued on self id and with no intention of gender reassignment surgery.

ie does living a lifestyle choice need a certificate.

Nope. The protected characteristic is ‘Gender Reassignment’.. “A person has the protected characteristic of gender reassignment if the person is proposing to undergo, is undergoing or has undergone a process (or part of a process) for the purpose of reassigning the person's sex by changing physiological or other attributes of sex”
No medical diagnosis or intervention is required for a person to be protected under the characteristic, so it is actually based on self ID.
Trans peoples access to single sex spaces is via the the Equality Act, not the GRC, they don’t need a GRC to do so and can be excluded if proportionate even if they do have one. The GRA reform doesn’t change this.

Given the erosion of women’s rights that have been introduced gradually through the manipulation of original GRA, I would not like to have seen this approach.

Much as I would like to see women’s rights strengthened through clarification of the EA, to allow dangerous legislation through and only attempt to control the side-effects using other legislation would be a risky path to take.

There was some talk of that. But if the Scottish government is entitled to issue GRCs I expect they'd be valid across the UK and it would be unlawful for government departments across the UK not to recognise them.

Just listened to BBC news. Reporter talking about issue being “clash of rights” - which is definitely a shift in bbc reporting. So it’s all sunlight in what’s happening. Had Shona Robinson on as well banging on about how single sex spaces are protected - ie rape centres - where proportionate and TW are excluded. That will be news to lots of single sex provision places in Scotland. If nothing else, it will highlight when single sex needs to be protected.