Since you’ve brought the thread back from the dead, @postingthengoodbye , and raised some points that have been repeated elsewhere, I’ll take the opportunity to reply.
As previous posts have said, this data just isn't reliable.
Previous posts have said that, yes. But none have explained why it isn’t, or given a reason why that’s plausible.
You haven’t either.
Lets look into that.
First off, I’m going to assume you’re not suggesting the Ministry of Justice over-estimated the number of transwomen in prison for serious sexual offences in January 2021 in their submission to Parliament?
That figure may be inaccurate but if it is, isn’t it more likely to be an under-estimate, due to convicts hiding their transness for their own protection?
We’re constantly told, aren’t we, that transwomen feel uniquely threatened in prisons, so isn’t it likely that a person who has not made major bodily modifications might temporarily keep their gender identity a secret & hope to pass for “cis”, for their own protection?
So the numbers in prison are surely a minimum figure, not a maximum?
The absolute numbers are less important though than the rate compared with the numbers of transwomen in the general population.
This was surprising, as Stonewall & other advocacy groups were confidently claiming it was anywhere between 200,000 & 600,000, instead of the 48,000 it turned out to be.
I suppose you could claim that in a confidential census, in which all figures are stripped of identifying details for 100 years, trans people would be too scared to out themselves, giving too low a figure, while at the same time claiming that in prison they’d be falling over themselves to announce themselves.
But that would stretch credulity.
The example of gay people being persecuted in several US states and what this says about prejudice is a brilliant example.
Are you saying the high rate of declared transwomen in prison for serious sexual offences in England and Wales is because gay people are oppressed in some US states? Not quite clear how that would work.
My main point is: sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling)
That’s true. But few charges relating to sex work involve any possibility of prison sentences - and it’s only sex offenders actually in prison that were included in the MoJ figures.
Kerb crawling (an offence by the buyer, not the seller, btw) attracts at most a caution or a fine. It’s a public order, rather than a criminal offence. If you failed to pay the fine you could go to prison: but it would be recorded as non-payment of fines, not as a sexual offence.
The crimes connected with prostitution that are serious enough to attract a prison sentence in themselves are the very nasty ones like sex trafficking, sexual coercion, forcing minors into prostitution, etc. These are not victimless crimes.
something we know trans women are more likely to fall into because of the kind of discrimination threads like this actively encourage
Are you seriously saying that transwomen are “falling into” pimping, sex trafficking of minors, or the other serious sexual offences that actually can bring a prison sentence because people on MumsNet are discussing the census findings?
Give your head a wobble.
There are reasonable discussions to be had, of course, about these findings. One of them is about how people understood the question about Gender Identity - and people have been having it on this thread.
The other is what would explain the apparently high rate of TW among serious sexual offenders.
The kindest answer is the “not really trans” argument - that the prison system has created an incentive for sex offenders to falsely claim to be trans.
The idea that anyone would ever do that has been denied out of hand for years, until someone - Christopher Hambrook, Karen White, the Q-club shooter, and now, where everyone can see, Isla Bryson - turns up.
And suddenly people agree it’s possible after all.