1 in 585 trans women are currently incarcerated for sexual offences

[GCITC]

Thanks to the census data, we can now show that 1 in every 585 trans women and England and Wales are convicted sex offenders.

That compares to 1 in every 2500-3000 men and 1 in every 243000 women.

twitter.com/mar2vickers/status/1611484662093828127?t=qo7fa3NkWyf_Qe-hRb9sUw&s=19

twitter.com/ripx4nutmeg/status/1611682182405160961?t=Kv1nsuxwEr3WlpagKYi7jA&s=19

So which is it? Are trans women inherently more dangerous than men that don't identify as trans, or are men pretending to me trans in order to offend?

The answer doesn't actually matter. The same solution fixes both issues.

[Pommie69]

2 transmen in England and Wales (or three in E & W & Scotland) tells its own tale!

In 2021 there were 97 TG sexual offenders, there are so few transmen in jail there aren't enough of them to be 97 TG sexual offenders! At MINIMUM 60% of TG sexual offenders (not including GRCs) are transgender males ("transwomen").

[Pommie69]

#1: 1991 R v Jennifer L Saunders 18 Sept 1991 - a lesbian (age)Conclusion: lesbian NOT transgender 1% of the female population are lesbian, this is consistent with female pattern sexual offending of lesbians. (UK) 2013 R v Chris Wilson Scotland therefore not in MOJ "transgender" statistics for England & Wales.

[Pommie69]

#2: 2012 R v Gemma Barker - 18-years-old at time of the offences, plead guilty to two counts of sexual assault she used false male identities to have sexual encounters with her 15 and 16-year-old victims. Guildford Crown Court was told the assaults, which took place between 23 November 2009 and 10 May 2010, included kissing, cuddling and sexual touching. On 5 March 2012 Judge Peter Moss sentenced her to two-and-a-half years custodial sentence in a Young Offenders' Institution & was told half the sentence would be in custody and the rest on licence.

[Pommie69]

#3: 2013 R v JMcN - 18 yo lesbian convicted for 6 sexual offences, she served 82 days in prison following her three year sentence upon conviction, being released upon the reduction of her sentence by the Court of Appeal who released her and sentenced her to suspended sentence. She did not claim in her defence that she was transgender, claim nor was she ever referred to in public reporting as "transgender" although this did not prevent transgender activists/extremists rallying to her cause. The appearance of a female girlfriend who was going to "stand-by her and visit her in prison suggests she was/is a lesbian.

[Pommie69]

#4: 2015 R v Kyran Lee (Fiona Manson) - suspended sentence in March 2015 offence ie never an offender serving a custodial sentence and therefore never in the HMPPS Offender statistics for offender serving custodial sentences (for one offence committed in 2012).Conclusion: Transgender by self-identification

[Pommie69]

#5: 2015 (2017) R v Gayle Newland - public reporting of the trial (2015) and retrial (2017) did not refer to any suggestion that Gayle Newland claimed to be transgender even though it would almost certainly have assisted her defence. Convicted of three sexual offences in November 2015, initially sentenced to 8 years custodial sentence, freed on Appeal in December 2016

[Pommie69]

(25 May 2022) Tarjit Singh, 32, transmanhttps://www.cps.gov.uk/london-north/news/sex-attacker-who-posed-male-trick-women-relationships-convicted

[Pommie69]

1 in 585 is definitely a mis-calculation by someone who hasn't read the definitions carefully enough. I have been working on them for 5 years and did mathematical analysis for aircraft components. If you get on one of my planes, you will arrive, wouldn't put any money on you arriving with the author of the 1 in 585 figure!

It is bad enough and it isn't as LOW as female sexual offending which can be the only threshold for entry into female sex-segregated spaces.

I am in the middle of an academic paper.

the sexual offending of the transgender* population (both sexes) the only real measure is FAR HIGHER than FEMALE. Comparisons with male sexual offending are interesting but barking up the wrong comparative tree - we are happy for transwomen (transgender males) to be in male =prisons right?

Our safety in female sex segregated spaces is that the female sexual offending is so low it almost doesn't exist! & I am here in front of the MOJ spreadsheet showing that of tiny number of female sexual offenders ZERO of those offences were against ADULTS (although one the other day of a "lesbian" sexually assaulting a man in his sleep).

[Delphinium20]

I find it hilarious that the same lying justifications for why a TW is in prison for a sexual offense are used in countries with different laws!

UK lie: if TW are in prison it's because the world (especially Terfs) forces them into sex work.
UK reality: kerb crawlers don't go to prison in the UK if kerb crawling is their only offense.

US lie: the only reason why TW are incarcerated in federal prisons at high rates of sexual offenses is because the world is so cruel (especially terfs) and they can only get jobs as sex workers.

US reality: No one is in a federal prison for prostitution as their only offense. To be convicted of a federal sex crime in the US you have to have done something really bad like rape, or sex trafficking across state lines.

Different laws. Same lies. Like they all share the same internet make-it-up-as-we-go-along Reddit forum.

[NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision]

@DarkDayforMN

My main point is: sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling) something we know trans women are more likely to fall into because of the kind of discrimination threads like this actively encourage


What is the logic here? Women sharing information about TW's propensity for violence may lead to them eschewing TW as sex partners, thus causing the poor discriminated-against TW to become kerb crawlers out of desperation, thus causing them to go to prison as sex criminals, thus driving up the statistics on TW sex offences, creating a vicious circle when threads like this share the statistics...

If only life was that neat and simple! But of course, kerb crawlers don't go to prison, and these statistics aren't well known enough to impact TW's chances of getting a consenting sex partner.

I was already told before by a regular poster on this thread that any statistical over-representation for offences like rape, possession of images of child sexual exploitation and so on, was because this population was marginalised and discriminated against.

The mechanism has still not been explained to me, and when I asked, she left the thread.

Is it being claimed that transphobia is leading to people being falsely convicted of rape?

Or is the claim that they are correctly convicted, but another male who did not identify as trans and committing the same offence would successfully convince the court he was not guilty?

If either of these, how does this fit in with how lenient the sentencing has been for the perpetrators in the examples we post? I cannot see evidence of bias against trans individuals there.

Or is it just "you meanies make them rape people"?

[Florissant]

This thread makes me sick to my stomach. It's honestly hard to believe these conversations are being had in a civilised society. Stop using unreliable data to villainize an entire community. I hope a trans person never has to come face to face with any of you people.

You're 44 years too late.

[Florissant]

@Thelnebriati

''sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling)'' is the kind of nonsense pimps say.
Kerb crawling is not a risk related to sex work. Its not an activity carried out by prostituted women.

Aren't the kerb crawlers the customers?

[Boiledbeetle]

I couldn't possibly comment without a false accent/ face covering

[SinnerBoy]

DialSquare · Today 13:11

I will never understand what the drive by posters get out of posting a load of bollocks to then be made to look like a fool by the regular posters on here. What do they actually think they are achieving!

It's probably so that they can go on Twitter and whine, "See? I told them, but they're still smelly Nazis."

[DarkDayforMN]

My main point is: sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling) something we know trans women are more likely to fall into because of the kind of discrimination threads like this actively encourage


What is the logic here? Women sharing information about TW's propensity for violence may lead to them eschewing TW as sex partners, thus causing the poor discriminated-against TW to become kerb crawlers out of desperation, thus causing them to go to prison as sex criminals, thus driving up the statistics on TW sex offences, creating a vicious circle when threads like this share the statistics...

If only life was that neat and simple! But of course, kerb crawlers don't go to prison, and these statistics aren't well known enough to impact TW's chances of getting a consenting sex partner.

[lifeturnsonadime]

Interesting that they've picked today to plop and run.

What a load of bollocks. All of it.

[DialSquare]

I hear you're a TRA now Boiled (in an Irish accent)!

[Boiledbeetle]

@DialSquare

I will never understand what the drive by posters get out of posting a load of bollocks to then be made to look like a fool by the regular posters on here. What do they actually think they are achieving!

Putting us in our place aren't they!

Works well!😁I've completely changed my views now!!!

[Thelnebriati]

''sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling)'' is the kind of nonsense pimps say.
Kerb crawling is not a risk related to sex work. Its not an activity carried out by prostituted women.

[DialSquare]

I will never understand what the drive by posters get out of posting a load of bollocks to then be made to look like a fool by the regular posters on here. What do they actually think they are achieving!

[TheCountessofFitzdotterel]

This thread makes me sick to my stomach. It's honestly hard to believe these conversations are being had in a civilised society. Stop using unreliable data to villainize an entire community. I hope a trans person never has to come face to face with any of you people.

The worst thing about male violence is it makes men look bad.
Remember ladies, if men commit violence it is your duty never to mention it.
And you most certainly can’t discuss or analyse it (as if your tiny brains were capable of that in any case!)

[Helleofabore]

@postingthengoodbye

Apologies for bringing this dead (which I'm glad it is) back to life, but I just need to clarify a few things:

1. As previous posts have said, this data just isn't reliable. The example of gay people being persecuted in several US states and what this says about prejudice is a brilliant example.
2. My main point is: sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling) something we know trans women are more likely to fall into because of the kind of discrimination threads like this actively encourage

This thread makes me sick to my stomach. It's honestly hard to believe these conversations are being had in a civilised society. Stop using unreliable data to villainize an entire community. I hope a trans person never has to come face to face with any of you people.

Oh dear…. Don’t you think you should be speaking to the males committing sex crimes rather than us?

And sadly, you cannot blame your own lack of critical analysis and understanding reality on anyone but yourself. And you are just as sadly mistaken that we don’t know and love trans people.

You must know that trans people are not one big group of same thinking people. And that YOU don’t speak for all trans people, if any at all. But carry on thinking you do, it must make you feel so very righteous.

[AmuseBish]

Stop using unreliable data to villainize an entire community.

I've asked repeatedly how to obtain good data so that realistic discussions can be had.
I have no interest whatsoever in 'villainizing'(?) anyone.

For reliable data we need definitions, which the trans community refuse to provide.

[NeighbourhoodWatchPotholeDivision]

My main point is: sex offences also include several charges related to sex work (for example, Kerb crawling) something we know trans women are more likely to fall into because of the kind of discrimination threads like this actively encourage

You are telling me that male people (of whatever gender identity) are driven to slowly drive around areas, looking for desperate women in street prostitution, in order to pay them to perform sex acts, because of threads on mumsnet?

Do you excuse all sex buyers of responsibility for their actions, or just some of them?

[SinnerBoy]

It was India Willyboy, on Question Time. The great numb-headed muppet.