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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Bullying your mum isn't activism, magnificent Glosswitch response to creepy Novara media article

117 replies

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 04/01/2023 15:59

Apologies if this has its own thread already, I couldn't see one. Glosswitch has written yet another excellent article: thecritic.co.uk/Bullying-your-mum-isnt-activism/

It's a response to novaramedia.com/2022/12/24/how-i-deradicalised-my-terf-mum/ published on Christmas Eve. The very timing tells me all I need to know. The people on the right side of history, by their own lights. were sitting on the sofa reading this, nodding and punching the air in support of 'Will' and his chums, while their decrepit, simple-minded mothers, aunts and grandmothers, i.e. the Janets of this world, were toiling away peeling sprouts and checking the cooking instructions on the vegan roast they'd bought for the Novara Media subscriber, hoping against hope it would pass muster.

In short, 'Will', the male child, bullies his mum, 'Janet', who has had great difficulty accepting that her other child, born female, now identifies as a transman, by threatening that if she doesn't give up her 'transphobia', i.e. stubborn adherence to material reality and concern about health consequences of unevidenced hormone and surgical treatments, both of her children will cut her off and encourage all their friends and neighbours to do the same. Nice guy, huh?

Glosswitch nails what's going on here. I was pleased to see that so did dozens of other outraged people on Twitter.

The son “Will” is obviously proud of himself, even though what he is describing is a form of coercive control. Threatening to isolate a female relative unless she denies her perceptions of reality indicates he does not care that she may not believe what she is saying. All that matters is that she has been forced into line. This is not activism; it is patriarchy.

Amen to that! The Novara article was written by a woman, depressingly.

OP posts:
Waitwhat23 · 05/01/2023 18:40

Given her son had to hack her online accounts in order to find out her views (you really don't see an issue with that, really?) and her 'refusal to acknowledge a trans identify' seems to have amounted to not much more than not agreeing that her daughter had literally changed sex (which is impossible as sex is immutable, no matter how often you make people chant an untruth), my impression from son's account was that nothing but a complete and utter capitulation to an ideology was acceptable to him.

And no, believing people have changed sex is not the same as same sex attraction. The former is nonsense, the second is actually based in reality.

LaughingPriest · 05/01/2023 18:50

FunnyTalks · 05/01/2023 18:25

Not read the Novara article, but I find the gay comparison in poor taste in general with trans stories. Many of the kids coming out as trans are actually gay and a trans identity is a way of coping with sexism and homophobia at home or in society. This is especially true with transmen. In certain groups trans identities are more accepted than being a young lesbian. And just imagine being a young lesbian who dares Google that term.

If you think gender matters and sex never does, you are denying that people can be exclusively attracted to one sex or the other. If someone tried to convince me of this I'd be happy to engage but if they had to resort to bullying instead, I'd be confident in concluding they did not have any argument that would convince me.

nilsmousehammer · 05/01/2023 19:03

Usernamechange986 · 05/01/2023 18:11

Bit sad to read all these comments. I found the son's narrative really easy to relate to - my Dbro came out as gay 20 years ago and my parents were not ok with it at all. At first he wasn't allowed in the house, and then was welcomed back but never allowed to bring partners or even talk about them, and while my DM was nice to his face, she often held forth to me about how he was mentally ill and she was praying for him.

I pretty much took the approach of the son in the article and ended up telling her she accepted her gay son or she'd lose her gay son and straight daughter. Apparently that was coercive control but I'm not sure what else I should have done. Just nodded and smiled and said 'good luck at church. I'm sure he'll meet the right girl soon' and potentially lost my Dbro? Or just quietly ghosted her and gone NC as soon as I left home? I think people commenting here are wildly unrealistic if they think it's sustainable for a dynamic of "I don't accept your identity and will tell you this repeatedly. Please pass the potatoes and don't talk back" to continue indefinitely within a family, esp as the younger generation move into adulthood.

Oh rubbish is it.

Many of us came out in the days when it seriously was a possibility you'd be thrown out of the house. I had a friend who's father attacked him on finding out he was gay, and another who lived at university through the holidays because she'd been disowned. Yes, some told their parents it's accept me or I'll walk away and that's fair enough. But it was 'please don't actively abuse me or try and talk me out of it' not 'do exactly as I say, right now, or I'll make your life a living hell and try and get you socially cut off from everyone and everything for not doing exactly as I command'. Because no one I ever knew who was gay was an abusive arsehole. We managed live and let live, we accepted this was not easy, and that we were not the centre of the bloody universe, and in some cases we waited decades before we all found our level again as a family.

No one would not have dreamed of treating family members like this. They just wanted to be left alone in peace to be gay, not to control and punish and dominate and threaten like this little so and so is so very obviously loving every minute of.

I wonder if this poor woman is still having to cook, clean for and taxi around this abusive little bugger as well as fund him. And count the days until he moves out.

Waitwhat23 · 05/01/2023 19:05

And to make a more applicable comparison.

If a sibling of mine became deeply religious. Insisted that I involve myself in prayers and church sessions. Called me a bigot for not saying grace or other phrases. Threatened to not only cut themselves off from me but also threatened to seek out my friends to ask them to cut themselves off from me to make absolutely sure I was as isolated and shunned as possible.

I might outwardly capitulate.

It still wouldn't make me believe.

nilsmousehammer · 05/01/2023 19:06

And yes, a bit ironic to be sadly sympathising with homosexuals when you are doing it to prop up a political agenda that is the most homophobic one I've seen in my lifetime and denies the right of people to be homosexual without threatening things like corrective rape and murder.

Makes me look back rather fondly on the days when the worst that could happen was 'get out of my house'.

TheCountessofFitzdotterel · 05/01/2023 19:56

Suppose Will were to grow up and have a same SEX attracted son.
Then by the ideology he is espousing he would be the one behaving like Username’s parents.

And given he’s unashamed about treating his mum in a similar way there’s a horribly good chance that is exactly what he would do to his child. Bullying is bullying. In Username’s account the parents are trying to kick the kid out. The mum in the article isn’t trying to do anything like that. It is not her who has most in common with them.

MenopausalMe · 05/01/2023 22:14

LaughingPriest · 04/01/2023 20:28

You just know that all this would be over in a week if all mums came out as non binary.

I have been so tempted, still will if I have to give pronouns at work

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 05/01/2023 22:55

I really wouldn’t want to live in a works where we’re all trying to strong arm each other into pseudo agreeing with one another. That would be a really terrible world to live in. I’ve already sort of lived it during the trump era. That was a fucking nightmare. Navigating christmas dinner with relatives that both had very strong opposing views and living through the “great unfriending” one were pretty dark days.

Stories I will surely share with my daughter in hopes that she understands forcing others to agree with her is a pretty hopeless and hateful conquest.

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 00:18

I’ve already sort of lived it during the trump era. That was a fucking nightmare.

@PissedOffAmericanWoman I remember constantly watching the news like it was a car crash in slow motion thinking what the hell must it be like to live there.

I'm assuming it was as mindboggingly awful as I imagine.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 00:54

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 00:18

I’ve already sort of lived it during the trump era. That was a fucking nightmare.

@PissedOffAmericanWoman I remember constantly watching the news like it was a car crash in slow motion thinking what the hell must it be like to live there.

I'm assuming it was as mindboggingly awful as I imagine.

Well it was kind of like perpetually walking on eggshells anytime you go out in public or go to work. Constantly trying to avoid subjects that were highly politicized even though it felt like EVERYTHING was politicized. It made for either very boring conversations or very passive aggressive talks or even full blown arguments and name calling. Yet everywhere you go that has a TV orange face is on the TV flapping his big stupid trap. There’s always this big elephant in the room but no one wants to talk about it. I found him really embarrassing honestly but many thought he was the ideal president and even worshipped him. I got so tired of seeing his damn face. On the off chance he gets bored in again I might denounce my citizenship at that point. (I’m not serious really. But honestly that is how much I hate him.) I can’t tolerate another four years of his face plastered to the TV.

PissedOffAmericanWoman · 06/01/2023 00:55

voted* not bored 🤣

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 01:05

@PissedOffAmericanWoman I feel your anguish! It must have been incredibly stressful.

But it was fascinating watching a real life example of the inmates being in charge of the asylum.

I used to switch between right and left view news channels and the way the same story could sound so completely different was bonkers.

I was glad once it was all over and I could finally stop myself from watching it all implode. It was addictive, especially towards the end.

Let's hope he never gets another opportunity. Especially as a second time he would be gunning for anyone who had denounced him in the last couple of years.

KinkyMom · 06/01/2023 03:29

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 01:05

@PissedOffAmericanWoman I feel your anguish! It must have been incredibly stressful.

But it was fascinating watching a real life example of the inmates being in charge of the asylum.

I used to switch between right and left view news channels and the way the same story could sound so completely different was bonkers.

I was glad once it was all over and I could finally stop myself from watching it all implode. It was addictive, especially towards the end.

Let's hope he never gets another opportunity. Especially as a second time he would be gunning for anyone who had denounced him in the last couple of years.

Agreed. I think it really diminished my perspective on my country and the citizens. I heard rumours about extreme thinkers but I always thought they were free and far between. I thought trump was running as a joke to be honest. The fact that he got voted in, the number of maga hats I’ve seen and the things I’ve heard really killed my confidence in my country as a whole.

You’re right about him coming after his denouncers though… I never thought of it that way. I’m so tired of politics being about attacking the other party… I just want it to be about improving our country and helping the citizens again… maybe I was naive to think it was ever about that though… 😒

Delphinium20 · 06/01/2023 04:20

When I first watched Trump before his nomination, I just laughed and laughed. People would say, "oh I hate him" and I thought, "hate is just too serious a word-he's a ridiculous man and no way the GOP will embarrass themselves with him."

Oh. I was so naive.

My extreme disgust for fellow Americans who voted "to give him a chance" has since ebbed and some of it is due to my realization that not everyone has the same experience nor information. But mostly I'm just tired of the past and want to move forward. I think a lot of former Trump voters feel the same.

The diehard Trump lovers still continue to baffle me.

Falalalalalalaetc · 06/01/2023 09:58

MenopausalMe · 05/01/2023 22:14

I have been so tempted, still will if I have to give pronouns at work

I'd love to do this. I would accompany it with simply 'identifying' as having done the housework / washing / providing a nutritious meal / having any food in the house at all, whilst actually just sitting on the sofa watching tv and eating turkish delight (which I wouldn't share).

'It's alright dear, your pants identify as being clean. It's literal violence to deny my self-ID as having cleaned your pants, but if you disagree the washing machine is over there...'

Sadly, I still have young children and it wouldn't be fair on them. Once they all hit the teenage years if they're being entitled, I might try it.

Let's hope all this insanity will be over by then. I have a small hope as my older DC (already a teen) very much is in tune with scientific reality - one of the few benefits of covid may have been helping with that - and there may be a return to reason rather than magical thinking with the next generation.

Boiledbeetle · 06/01/2023 10:27

Story for the Trump derail. And thanks to the posts re what it was like to live through the ?!?!?!?!?!?!? that we could only stare in horrified fascination at whilst going "oh my god did he just say/do that?"

But it was kind of like the Trump on steroids shit show shows where people like Wills behaviour eventually leads I feel. unwilling to listen and expect complete capitulation even if it's not actually in your own best interests.

To our American sisters currently going the the same crap as we are, but just with different spellings 💐

IwantToRetire · 06/01/2023 15:25

Is it possible to tweet the Met Police and MPs for the area asking them to investigate a case of domestic abuse and that Novara Media can give them the contact details.

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