Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

@Flounder2022 Flying close? Apologies. I thought I was trying to be fair. Was it the first or second part that's problematic? Sometimes posts can be a bit tin eared, usually when trying to be brief.

Nope. Women deserve their own space because of the predator class, made up of men.

This is a mixed sex, mixed age space, and the only people excluded are the parents!

About what? I know no more than anyone else on here (ie the OP and googling the charity). With some added surmising, but certainly no more than anyone else on the thread.

Just to be clear - no one else can identify another group or organisation that does the equivalent of this sort of thing that we can subject to equal scrutiny?

Not what was written - thank goodness someone has had it removed

I've never heard of it. One or two posters describe 'pool parties' for kids, but these are obviously aimed at children/peers, not for 'all ages' including unfamiliar adults. Plus, I've never heard of these for young children. Seems madness to me to suggest a 6 yo go swimming unsupervised.

Repeating it ad nauseum does not make it what is happening.

The charity's trans officer, Fern, (non binary, medically transitioned individual who used to work on trans residential events - holidays?) is fairly new to the role and the role is also new at the charity.

Recommending Gender Gp for under 18s to access puberty blockers within the first 5 mins of a Facebook live on 13th Dec 2022:

fb.watch/hOTp3_Zys1/

I'm not getting water tight safeguarding feels from Fern's fb live.

Gender GP? Oh what a fucking surprise.

Suspended by the GMC, her husband struck off.

Go figure.

I think it's fine, but I also think ladies only sessions and male on sessions should also exist.

I mean my local pool offers

Adult only 18+
Ladies only
65+ only
Family only
And
General Public swimming

They have taken initiative to book a safe space, pay for it organise it and advertise it 🤷🏻‍♀️ They will be responsible for the event, and liable for anything that happens during the event.

Repeating things gives you the opportunity to refute it.

You not doing that is what's effective.

@Flounder2022 please then rest assured my post was meant to be read as written. I do snark but not on this occasion. I'm happy to reassure you, and anyone else, there was no subtext intended.

But the charity, for clarity, should flag there safeguarding policy. As people are as likely to assume there isn't one, as that there is one. And, if they don't already, to split the pool. For the benefit of the kids and the adults. I imagine renting it for two separate sessions might be beyond their funds.

I agree
And there is nothing to suggest this swim session has not. As has been pointed out multiple times by multiple people there are numerous examples where parents are not allowed poolside during swim sessions. My own local town swimming pools being one as there are no seats around the pool … too small so you go and sit in the little cafe while your child swims. Same if they are in the badminton court.

In this case, Parents are allowed in the changing room and they have pool staff lifeguards on duty. That is the same a many many smaller leisure Centre pools fun swim sessions including my town across the country

Fern describes the nhs route (Gp, CAHMS, then KOI) but notes that some children aren't getting pbs depending on the clinician they see there. And long waiting lists.

So the best private option is Gender Gp. Google it online, fill in some forms. Goes to lengths to describe the fees and to check the fees before signing up and that that includes prescriptions too. (Not much bothered about health.)

I've refuted your claim that I don't believe this or other groups should not be subject to the same safeguarding measures. Keep playing your game, you seem to be having fun.

If there is no equivalent in any other organisation/charity/group (mixed sex mixed age event where parents are not allowed to be in the actual place where the event is taking place and 'genitals covered' has to be stated in the dress code), then accusations of any objection to this being based on bigotry fall straight down don't they?

There may not be any children if non wish to attend, but they have been invited and any child who is present will be unsupervised because their parents are not allowed in.

And although you have to book in, anyone can book without vetting, so it is an open even in that sense, so not comparable to 'Lucy from class 5's birthday' where everyone is explicitly invited.

I've refuted your claim that I don't believe this or other groups should be subject to the same safeguarding measures.

Typo in original post.

As has been pointed out multiple times by multiple people there are numerous examples where parents are not allowed poolside during swim sessions. My own local town swimming pools being one as there are no seats around the pool … too small so you go and sit in the little cafe while your child swims.

Is this swimming lessons, or a public swim session where adults your child doesn't know are swimming there as well and there is no way of an adult being able to watch this, either in the pool or elsewhere?

And the second point, about it not being supervised? How do you know its not?

Just having a look at their Facebook videos. This all looks like a charity for adult sexual health:

'#GetWet for the Rainbow Project!'
'In bed with Leo: answering your sexual health questions'
'Rapid HIV and Syphilis Testing'
'Merry Queermas'

Yes, That was their original remit

Although our initial work was focused on HIV and STI prevention, it became clear that our service-users had additional support needs related to their physical health generally as well as mental & emotional well-being.

Here's a vid about the 'trans swimming' from three years ago.

www.facebook.com/watch/?v=852424151841152

People in the comments discussing wearing a binder to go swimming, which I expect would be another risk.

Fern says they give advice on binders. So that's ok.