Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

The main question that hasn't been answered is why are parents excluded? That's a fairly significant issue.

Most places would say we can't accommodate this, but you're welcome to...

Or, there is no space for us all to blah blah blah, please feel free to yada yada yada...

The only answers are that parents might gawp or be transphobic.

Which, I'm not gonna lie, isn't what I would call even the slightest bit credible.

This is the crux of it.

Can people actually give examples of other groups or organisations who do this?

There would not be thread on this, I am pretry certain, if it was an event organised by almost any other group.

I say again; What other group of people would advertise a mixed sex all age private swim session banning parents on the poolside?

There's no true definition of trans here.

So it's all ages mixed sex, no parents.

Where else do you get that?

Scouts and cubs want parents at the annual lido swim event probably for the reason that supervising teens and kids in a pool is no picnic.

Add a load of adults who've responded to a private event including unsupervised kids and the risk assessment becomes untenable.

OK, give examples of other situations where children are invited to a swim session that is also open to adults they don't know, and parents are not allowed in the pool or poolside.

And then we can discuss if they are scrutinised as closely.

Yes @WarriorN it shouldn't be just handwaved. I can understand details lacking in the original fb post for brevity but it should link to proper and thorough pieces on the charities site. Which I don't believe this does.

I hope they get this sorted, that it goes ahead, is successful and is repeated. Perhaps have two sessions, one for adults, who probably don't want to be arsed with kids anyway, and one for children and their parents, perhaps an opportunity to make friends and find support.

No.

I'm demonstrating the sacred caste concept. You said you didn't agree that there was a such a thing as a free pass if someone said they are trans. I'm demonstrating that there is.

You refusing to engage with it doesn't make it any less true.

It has been ongoing for at least a year.

Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, Stonewall? for starters.

You said you didn't agree that there was a such a thing as a free pass if someone said they are trans. I'm demonstrating that there is.

No I did not.

You’re making words up for other people again Datun.

I realise that works for you lots of times to chase of people who challenge your views, but I’m not playing.

@Flounder2022 super. Do you know more about it then?

Presumably someone could arrange a similar female only booking if they wished and set their own rules.

Except you wouldn't be allowed to exclude any males who wanted to join in, self-identifying (even though it's not the law) as women.

So trans people can have their own sessions, including children whose parents won't be allowed in.

But if women want to hold their own sessions, fully complying with all safeguarding rules and providing accessibility for other protected characteristics? Tough luck, not allowed. 🙄

There's no true definition of trans here.

So it's all ages mixed sex, no parents.

Where else do you get that?

To be fair, there's no definition of trans anywhere. No working definition.

Also this session includes non-binary people, and people with DSDs.

Which is another issue.

Some DSDs are life threatening.

I'm gonna take a punt and say I don't think they're including kids with those.

The main question that hasn't been answered is why are parents excluded?

I dunno, like, maybe, erm…. ask the organisers via the website in the OP?

Crazy idea I know.

But probably faster than asking the same question over and over again on a random internet forum where several people have already suggested a number of possible reasons based on other times they’ve been asked to wait outside the pool area while their kids swim.

No more than is available via Google.

Quite. From their website:

Well no, the reason why this kicked off is because people were saying it was fine, but being singularly unable to explain how.

Why make the point, using your kids' attendance at pool parties with adult strangers, if you're not going to furnish the pertinent info - their ages?

I would allow a 13, 14 yo to attend a party like this, probably. Not so much a 6 yo.

Let's hope they've got it right then.

For what that's worth.

As I say yesterday, Jessica Yaniv was immensely keen on 'all ages' swimming sessions.

I'm not familiar with the privately held events of every organisation or group in existence - I wouldn't be aware of this one only it was posted here. I'll be sure to let you know if I come across any.

I do know that the swim lane at the pool is always open at the pool when my son does his lessons. And I am.quite happy with their safeguarding measures, thank you.

Or the point that, no, it's not a free pass, and then refusing to discuss when is one.

Mermaids, Gendered Intelligence, Stonewall? for starters.

Reminds me of the Ripx4nutmeg thread earlier this week:

I'm not familiar with the privately held events of every organisation or group in existence - I wouldn't be aware of this one only it was posted here. I'll be sure to let you know if I come across any.

There is no clear reason to deny the presence of parents from a privately organised mixed sex swim session for all ages, including strange adults.

Unfamiliar adults (stranger danger on my mind.)