Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

You do realise no one is forced to attend? That if as a parent you are not happy with the set up and the organisers have not been sufficiently able to alleviate your concerns, you are free to not send your child? People here have made it clear they would not send their child to the swim classes my son attends. That's their perogative.

That’s because you are lumping a diverse and decent, respectful set of people in with a small but vocal group of nutcase ‘trans activist’ extremists that have made all the headlines. They do not represent the trans community anymore than the any extreme group represents their whole

Well yeah. Trans or not, I dont think i would ever take my child to an event where in the dress code section it has to specifically state 'As always, genitals covered'. Eeeeeeek!

Well, it's useful for people to see how these safeguarding failures happen.

Next time your child is invited somewhere like this, you can ask to see the safeguarding policy, ask who has been DBS checked, and that should you want to see what's happening, will you be welcome to do so.

(I still find that extraordinary. Not allowed. Not fucking allowed.)

So why can't parents go on the poolside? Why are they specifically excluded from being on the poolside? What is the issue with a parent supervising from the side?

Then maybe we can get back to how to deal with the vastly bigger threat that men pose to women and children in public swimming sessions, week in week out, and have done for years, and that children still have unfettered access to, unsupervised, from age 8, with no control or tracking whatsoever on adults in the changing and swimming areas.

I have to say that I agree here
with this paragraph.

I have always thought it is a safeguarding risk for someone as young as eight to go alone ( and as well as child molesters I’d be worried about inattentive life guards).

Also, I do know directly of men with goggles swimming behind women in the lane in order to ogle - which is why women only sessions are a relief to many women, and also Muslim women.

In a grim kind of way it would be interesting to see a list of safeaguarding disasters where the case review documents the history of

it's fine!
it's fine
you're being silly/right wing/prejudiced in enlightened times when everything is fine and everyone will be nice and behave well and not do anything unexpected
its all fi-
whoops.

Yes, I think it's pretty mad. I would let an 11/12 yo go, but 8 yos on their own in a pool?

Again, yes, predators are a worry but more so are young children just diving too deep, overestimating their swimming skills. My kid is a strong swimmer, but there have been several instances I've had to pull her up when she's inhaled water, got in a fankle, dived wrong.

Posted too soon- but I also think the organisers of the private trans swimming event should let the parents of anyone young be present, or else keep to older groups or have two.

As a teacher who's also taken them swimming for years it's the "no parents allowed to watch" part that's the issue.

Very different if a child over 8 who is a very competent swimmer is allowed to go swimming unsupervised because the parent decides they're ok to.

(my local pool wouldn't let them in the building without an adult unless obviously older though)

Complete ban on parents with unknown adults supervising is a concern.

Who gets decide who is trans and can gain entry? This is self ID. And for all ages.

Also advertised specifically with no parents watching; red flag to a bull there.

So why can't parents go on the poolside?

Have you considered contacting the organisation to ask? Their website is in the OP.

We’ve done plenty of possible reasons why, based on knowledge and experience of wither swimming venues, but if that’s not enough for you then you’ll just need to ask the actual event organisers.

More attempts to create a sacred cast.

You have no way of knowing, ever, whether or not a group would or would not contain someone with nefarious intention.

That's the whole bloody point!

If we could all tell, there be no such thing as paedophiles in the priesthood, scouting association, or teaching profession.

If we could tell, we would just tell.

Is 'poolside' doing a lot of heavy lifting here?

Not at the edge of the pool in the nearest block of seats, usually either to one side of a pool or above in a viewing gallery. School pools obviously don't have this and parents hang around the building, usually looking through any available window, porthole in a door.

The problem with this session is that it mixes two incompatible cohorts and treats them both as though they are adult.

The basic issue is that anyone whose eyes are actually open to potential issues can see that having a group of adults mix with a group of minors who are strangers to them in a locked, private, secret space is unacceptable, even before you add in the fact that they will be partially dressed. Yet those who don't want to see just won't see it, preferring to denigrate those who do.

We all know how badly that can go for the kids involved. Yet some simply choose to set up a sacred caste and to ignore the basic truths of child protection.

And still we are the bad guys, the bigots, the fuckwits.

At my local pool only swimmers are allowed poolside, there is little space for anyone else. Someone up post made what appears a very valid point from the life guards perspective. There is also no viewing area at my local pool. So these restrictions may very well be in place not because of the organisers but because of limitations at the venue.

"Because there is no risk here greater or different from allowing children to swim unsupervised in a Leisure Centre pool.
If you believe that children swimming unsupervised by their parents in a pool that has adults in it is such an egregious safeguarding risk then why aren’t you campaigning for it to be stopped?"

Because the unsupervised part of this example has been decided by the parent or guardian. Not a group organising a private session.

I might be missing something here but I was under the impression that privacy and their own spaces was definitely not what transpeople want.

No, they don’t want women having privacy from them. But according to this thread, they absolutely do want private trans only spaces that adult trans people can invite young teens to without parents interfering, and not only is that normal and reasonable, but it’s transphobic to have any reservations about it.

Yes i agree

im trying to think of when my children haven’t been observed by me or my husband in a swimming pool…but i know its a perfectly ‘normal’ thing to do at organised events

Parents whos children are attending this will have made the exact same decision! And actually there are likely organisers present, as well as the lifeguards, so in actual fact an added layer of supervision!

Absolutely.

We let ours go to the beach without adults at 14, and I’d still be a bit twitchy about a public pool.

So many accounts of harassment, perving in the changing village, and generally unsafe pool behaviours.

Small lifeguarded pools are safer and our kids have been to private hire pool birthday parties with the birthday family adults (not people we had ever met bar one parent) and lifeguards in attendance. And yes, we had to sign a consent form!

Lord. Just tell them they can get in the pool, then!!

'Parents whos children are attending this will have made the exact same decision! And actually there are likely organisers present, as well as the lifeguards, so in actual fact an added layer of supervision!'

No they haven't. They've been told that they can not be in the pool area. That some of them will be willing to go along with this does not mean it's still not a safeguarding issue.

Did you miss the part where parental consent is required in writing for every under 18 attending? So that’s a decision by the parents then. Good-oh.

Same can be said for allowing unsupervised kids attend open swims. Where are the threads on that safeguarding issue?

i'm surprised, even after all these posts people don't understand. Parents willing to put their children in a situation that has no safeguarding, doesn't mean Jack shit.

It doesn't make it any safer. It just means the parent is clueless about safeguarding

And still we are the bad guys, the bigots, the fuckwits.

Receipts please? I’ve been here for the long haul and not seen anyone calling anyone else a bigot or fuckwit or bad guy.