Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

StrawberryFieldsForEveryone

You have more patience than me. I’m out, I can’t believe I’m seeing this in 2023. A whole group of people targeted and labeled as a threat to children for no reason whatsoever other than prejudice. We are literally going back to the Thatcher dark ages again where all gay men were ‘perverts’ and a danger to children and “safeguarding” was the tool to use to exclude and demonize them. The right wing are truly terrifying.

That's correct. The information we have is contained in the opening post.

People here are talking about the potential, given the information they have.

Buy it's not even so much about that, either.

It's about other people trying to pretend that even hypothetically banning parents from being able to attend a 'no lower age limit' swim session with grown adults, is absolutely fine.

It's about claiming the only reason people would be worried about it is because of the gender identity of the people concerned.

It's a bizarre take.

Because the way to make people less suspicious, is to advocate for closing loopholes. Not pretending they're not there.

what the fuck has 'right' or 'left' got to do with safeguarding?

I'll give Red their due, they are great for making me write poems.

Poems over getting banned wins out today, or I really will get banned.

This ridiculous post hardly merits a response but I’ll bite.

ANY adult is potentially a safeguarding risk. Those of us who apply safeguarding in our work to organise children’s activities are saying that there are potential pitfalls with the way this is organised.

Your sincerely
A left wing kind person who works with vulnerable people and is trying to share her expertise

The fact they advertised it as ´all ages’ then said parents must hide in the changing rooms. The fact that it’s basically unheard of to have an event open to adults and minors but specifically exclude parents of those minors. It’s normal to exclude kids completely or have an age limited event (with lower and upper limit) where parents are excluded but so are unknown unchecked adults.
It’s pretty common to have events open to all ages but kids remain the responsibility of their parents. It’s a good, easy to work model for organizations. You do have to let parents into the event for this to be an option.

Safeguarding is right wing thatcherism! Only right wing bastards protect children!

😂

That is a very calm, sensible and comprehensive post.

I too think it a good idea to send it to the organisation involved.

Point out that, for whatever reason, the advertising of their session is raising a few concerns with parents, and it might be useful in terms of reassurance, for them to address these issues.

Either they haven't fully addressed them, because they are not that au fait with safeguarding, in which case they will be grateful for the information.

Or, they have their safeguarding protocols wrapped up nice and tightly, and can publicise them.

I'll mention incidentally that what homosexuals were actually fighting for in the days of Thatcher was to not be mistaken for being any greater risk to children or with lesser social responsibility and boundaries than anyone else.

We were very much for safeguarding.

This whole kink and depravity is all a natural part of LGBT+ism and safeguarding, gay rights and women's rights is hate is all a modern political movement and it's no friend to - well. Gay people, women or children.

I mean i wouldn't mind, but I don't even have any pearls to clutch!

Omg, wait… the requirement for parental consent is now a red flag?

That is not an answer, strawberry. Why is parental consent required for a swimming session? What is in that consent form? Consent forms usually say something like 'we are not responsible for accidents' or 'we are not responsible for theft of your belongings'. What part of the responsibility of minors are they offloading to the life guards on duty and what is the organisation still responsible for?

Usually you do not need to sign a consent form if your child goes swimming. Do you agree? So what makes this different?

I'll go over to the Ode to Nicola thread to see your work Boiled

so many people just making stuff up…
it explicitly states that it has single cubicles… so the parent so afeared of the hordes of paedophiles masquerading as trans to get to their child would not be gawping at anyone as they’d be in the cubicles provided.

learning.nspcc.org.uk/research-resources/templates/example-consent-form

Oh dear, you've really lost it there. Perverts, demonise, Thatcher, right wing 😁

Can't you just talk normally and explain why it's okay to exclude parents from a no age limit swim session between kids and the adults organising it?

Nils just accept that you, like me are a right wing bigot. I think we need to post our political leanings charts to prove our Conservative values

Meanwhile, here you all are, determinedly attacking a third-space created for and by trans people (aka that thing you keep asking trans people to do) and claiming to be entirely motivated by safeguarding children.

Swimming session for trans people over 18: go for it. Swimming session 14-18 trans people, with additional measures would be ok. Under 14 mixing with adults in a closed session parents are excluded from: hell no.

This is what kicked off this thread, the mix of young teens and adults and deliberately excluding parents. Why can't people see that that and only that is the issue?

Flounder, and this is the consent for they are asking parents to sign? Can I ask how you know?

It was actually kicked off by someone who was annoyed 'because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.'

I think they backtracked on that though cos they realised their point had little basis and a much more interesting argument was being pushed.

Why is parental consent required for a swimming session?

The reach is getting very silly now. Parental consent for organised groups hosting swimming sessions is totally normal. Schools, youth groups, guiding for example.

It is an example of why consent may be asked for, which is what the poster asked.

I think they backtracked on that though cos they realised their point had little basis and a much more interesting argument was being pushed.

I think that that argument stopped as everyone said: great, have trans sessions, one less argument on the tra's side to stop womens single sex sessions. This plan actually works for us as well.
And then someone saw the no age limit-ban parents part...

Anyway, Flounder, I suggest the post by Martialisthebestpup. Split the sessions and then there is no issue.

MargaretMead

interesting isn’t it?! Because I work in safeguarding too. Quite extensively in fact.

How is this activity a “risk”
1/. Voluntary
2/. All names and emails of participants likely known by organizer
3/. Parental consent needed for under 18
4/. likely low numbers, likely less with likely community links
5/. parental supervision in the only place where it is possible a child may be alone
6/. individual cubicles for changing
7/. Publicly staffed

Where is the risk beyond the risk for any activity anywhere where there are unsupervised children? Children go to the swimming pool unsupervised every weekend, the attend sports clubs and get changed in changing rooms unsupervised every weekend. Bring a ‘parent’ doesn’t make you more or less likely to be a threat to children.

this is blatant transphobia dressed up as “safeguarding”
concern

I have never seen another event involving children that states in its dress code ' As always, genitals covered'.