Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

Maybe because the pool don't allow non swimmers poolside? And maybe because there is no public gallary in this particular pool. Maybe parents who are not trans can't swim because numbers are limited and they want to ensure as many trans people can partake as possible. You know, valid reasons!

At least you are acknowledging that the perverts are cis and not trans.

Third attempt to create a sacred cast.

All genders, perhaps, but as we all know 98% of predators, abusers and perverts are male. Paraphilias are virtually exclusively confined to males.

Yes, they do - is it just trans swimming sessions this should be looking at, or do you campaign for all the mixed sex mixed age public swim sessions to be looked at too though? As plenty swim unaccompanied daily at them.

This

Is this poster suggesting that a trans person cannot be a predator by virtue of their trans status?

Funny, because I could list many predators who happen to be trans. I would imagine its a similar proportion as in the population as a whole. The issue is their predatory nature, not their gender identity.

If you build events with huge safeguarding risks, the predators will come. If they have to declare a certain gender identity as a condition of entry (and okay, cover their genitals) they will do this, too.

Are parents able to enter mixed sex, mixed age public swim sessions, or are they explicitly excluded ?

No I am responding to those who suggested people may pretend to be trans to gain access to this event and therefore children. Cos you know, there are no other ways to access women and children but for a male to pretend he is a female.

I see. So because there are other ways to access victims, predators will for some reason choose not to pursue this particular easy-access route? How come?

You right they do

What's the point of this?

Anyone who wants to go along can just pretend to be non-binary surely?

They'll be doing gender identity checks on the door, HPFA.

Oh I know just didn't fancy that as a come back from our friend

This point is going round and round and RedStriped and Strawberry keep repeating it. A general public swimming session where parents can come and go as they please is apparently exactly the same as a private swimming session where parents are explicitly told they can’t be there and have to hide away🙄.

Is this poster suggesting that a trans person cannot be a predator by virtue of their trans status?
Haven't seen that said by anyone, anywhere.
Just why is it that people only care when it's a trans swimming session and not the usual every day ones?
Why are people assuming there's no checks on staff (swimmers aren't usually checked before each swim before anyone says they're on about the swimmers - how would that even work?!) and everyone must be up to something dodgy just because parents can't be poolside or there's no viewing area available?
That's the case a lot of the time. With seemingly little bother as don't see people protesting about that, when it's just the same you'd think they would

Not just gender identity checks. Also intersex checks [nods sagely].

Is this poster suggesting that a trans person cannot be a predator by virtue of their trans status?

How are we going to explain Karen White? Katie Dolotowski? Just as two examples from many?

White identified into a women's mental health ward and raped a woman multiple times, leaving her so badly injured she may never be able to have children. They went into prison awaiting trial for this rape via self ID, self IDd into a women's prison and while awaiting trial, entertained themselves with a few more sexual assaults, some of which were successfully prosecuted.

Are we going to play 'well some bad apples happen but you can't put up boundaries for everyone based on a few people who will use it to offend?' - because I've got the rebuttals for that all lined up, and if you lock your car and house when you leave them, you already know them.

Or are we going to play 'they weren't truly trans'?

Or are we going to just insist on a personal reality in which that didn't happen, White and Dolotowski don't exist and pigs formation fly backwards over Clacton?

Who is helped by all this ridiculous denial and fear of facts?

You'll have to swear your non-binariness on a copy of Gender Trouble.

I'm not sure why parents would want their kids to do this in the first place but it's easy enough for them just to say they're non-binary if they want to be in the pool too.

A general public swimming session where parents can come and go as they please is apparently exactly the same as a private swimming session where parents are explicitly told they can’t be there and have to hide away🙄
They're not "hiding the parents away though!
Parents can accompany them in the changing rooms
They can't be poolside and there's nowhere to watch them from, which is the case a lot of the time.
If you weren't comfortable with that set up, you just wouldn't consent to them going in the first place.

Having been raped by a paedophile in the changing rooms of a swimming baths and then fondled in the actual pool by the same man im not fond of them at all to be honest.

But if we have to have them them there should be someone watching each individual child at all times to ensure their safety. DBS enhanced checks for all safeguarded to the Max even one dubious photo on a staff members social media and id want them sacked.

But that's just me.

www.cheshire-live.co.uk/news/local-news/ellesmere-port-man-sentenced-13-5185532

And I'm out before I blow again

Boiled

I am all for making swimming sessions more comfortable for any group of teens. Those years of school swimming lessons can have hideous memories for boys and girls. The antagonising over the swimsuit shape and shaving and periods for girls. Teasing of boys body hair and when they go through a natural stage of gynaecomastia. Then the awkwardness of changing rooms.

So these sessions should not include adults. There should be one for 17s and below. Then another for adults.

I have to be careful about how I word the next bit because I don’t want it to be taken down for any reason but I will say the facts. In Dds school, a few years back when she was aged 13-14, drag race was the most popular show. There was one boy obsessed with it. He used to dress up and pose in drag style poses on his Instagram. The popular girls followed him and posted about styling and make-up, a second group of less popular girls and boys that different to the first in that they were about gender/sexuality norms, and a third group of adult men. After clicking on the adult men instagrams I know this is not a group who would normally be interacting with the other two groups in real life. The reason I know this and clicked on their accounts was there was an incident, involving the police and social services, that the school downplayed. This paragraph is completely true and nothing has been tweaked. I doubt parents had a clue this was going on.

From my experience as a parent, this is why I wouldn’t want that second group and any possibility of the third group mixing in real life, especially when people read there is an emphasis on keeping the parents away too. I can imagine a scenario where this invite is advertised on social media and becomes an opportunity for two very different groups to meet in real life.

Boiled