Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

I read the entire post, thanks

Theeyeballsinthesky

erm …. What are the fun swim sessions if it’s not adults and children swimming and socializing together? Is there something wrong with that? Do you suspect any adult who goes to a fun session without children of some dodgy intent? Why is trans different?

Additionally however, there are so few sessions like this available. If I had a trans kid (just because you don’t believe it’s possible doesn’t make it so!!) who is likely extremely unhappy with their body, I’d want them to have the chance to swim with others who felt or had felt the same way. Who would likely be super sensitive to this and behave accordingly.

They would like to have a swim session free from prejudice and the gawping transphobic bollocks

So it’s more important to exclude parents and that safeguard than risk people “gawping”? Do you think parents who think they have a trans kid are likely to do this? Why not just make it for adults then?

Yes there still might be people who claim to be trans / non binary but aren’t who gain access but they are trying to limit the possibilities.

Are you saying there might be people who would pretend to be trans to gain access to spaces they’re not supposed to be in who pose a risk?

But you only see the risk of this to keeping the event genuinely trans? You don’t see any other risks?

Priceless.

Datun

What is the actual reason?

what’s the actual reason that women want to be able to swim with no men present?

Apart from certain religions that don't allow it, it's because men constitute the predator class.

You're talking about parents who are supportive of their children, to the extent that they are taking them to a trans only swim session.

Why are they not allowed to view it?

And you're asking me to come up with reasons?? Haha. I don't think there is a credible reason. I think there is every reason to encourage parents to view the adults swimming with their child.

And I must've asked, at least six or seven times now. What IS the reason? Everyone who is supporting this, what is the reason for not allowing parental oversight?

Unless you're really saying it's because the children are worried their parents are the predator class or, despite them taking them to a trans inclusive swimming session with grown adults, they object to it really on the basis of transphobia?

Yes there still might be people who claim to be trans / non binary but aren’t who gain access but they are trying to limit the possibilities.

Let’s play this out further.

Parent turns up wants to swim with their kid. Claims to be trans as well. Parent excluded because they were told explicitly beforehand they wouldn’t be allowed to swim.

Man turns up. Says he’s intersex and wants to swim with the kids without their parents.

What happens? Just let him swim?

Why do so many MN people suddenly want to go and watch transpeople swim and get changed with them?? 😂 Isn't this the exact same thing you were all saying must never happen??

Are you saying there might be people who would pretend to be trans to gain access to spaces they’re not supposed to be in who pose a risk?

But you only see the risk of this to keeping the event genuinely trans? You don’t see any other risks?

Priceless.

it's mind-boggling. I don't know how many times I've said sacred cast now! It must be at least six.

Also loophole.

How would a predator ever think they could possibly gain access to half naked children with no parents present I wonder?

'Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.'

Hiding in plain sight.

What IS the reason? Everyone who is supporting this, what is the reason for not allowing parental oversight?
What exactly are you trying to imply here? What do you think is going to happen in a public staffed swimming pool, private pool parties happen all the time and parents don't go in then.

Who are so sensitive to the needs of children, that 'genitals covered' is required in the dress code?

Private pool parties aren't generally adults and kids together with no parents allowed.

And I must've asked, at least six or seven times now. What IS the reason? Everyone who is supporting this, what is the reason for not allowing parental oversight?

Maybe because the pool don't allow non swimmers poolside? And maybe because there is no public gallary in this particular pool. Maybe parents who are not trans can't swim because numbers are limited and they want to ensure as many trans people can partake as possible. You know, maybe lots of valid reasons!

Yes, lots of maybes but that's what we are working off of here cos people are losing their shit based off small snippets of info from one cut and paste advert.

And I answered ….

because, for this activity, they do not want to be viewed by people who aren’t part of their community. Quite simple really. What is so difficult to understand about that? Why are there black only groups? Or female only groups? Or Rick climbing only groups? Nothing sinister about them? Every weekend, millions of children are dropped off at football, hockey, rugby clubs without a murmur. Most ban parents from the changing rooms - not a murmur of complaint or concern.

In their case…..

Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

Why can't the parents swim with their children at this event?

Things happen everywhere.

That's why we have safeguarding.

Things happen everywhere. In private pools, pool parties, camps, and hospitals.

That's why we have safeguarding. That's why we close the loopholes. We don't widen them.

We don't create a loophole that says any Tom Dick and Harry can show up, claiming they are non-binary, and get to see half naked children without their parents present.

its not just the advert though - we have been & looked through the organisation’s website. The only mention of safeguarding is around how they use information ie names, addresses etc collected from people who sign up to their mailing list

Other than that, there’s nothing. And after the fiasco of mermaids I’m not inclined to just assume it’s all ok

How would a predator ever think they could possibly gain access to half naked children with no parents present I wonder?

ffs - READ!!!

Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

Telling isn’t it? The only concern about fakers is parents who might fake trans to keep an eye on their kids. But no mention of the most likely fakers who will turn up.

And what’s to stop them?

“My name’s Bob, I have 17β-Hydroxysteroid dehydrogenase III deficiency. I’d like to swim too please.”

If this was an adults only session, I would have no issues.
If this was a 10 (ish) - 16 yr olds only I would have some issues but not around the session itself.
As its neither I have issues around not allowing parents in the pool with their children as a requirement for attending.

It's because it's kids and adults they don't know and who are not DBS checked. With parents specifically banned from watching. None of the examples in your post have that specific mix.

But yes, if you allow your say, 13 year-old to go swimming on their own, in a public session and you don't go, or you don't watch, then it's the same. Apart from the pool hasn't had to stipulate 'genitals covered'.

We don't create a loophole that says any Tom Dick and Harry can show up, claiming they are non-binary, and get to see half naked children without their parents present.

You mean like happens at with every public swimming session all over the UK, including the changing areas? That loophole that you’ve not made a murmur about at all? Or does that one not count in GC land because it’s not exclusive to trans people?

Exactly!

We can all read. Parents have to wait in the changing rooms until the session is finished. Why? Who gains from that? The best we’ve had is people don’t want to swim while being “gawped” at by some of the most trans inclusive people on the planet - parents who are convinced enough they have a trans kid they’ve taken them to a trans swimming session.

I've asked this dozens of times. The only answer I've had is is because the parents might gawp and be transphobic. Which, although, it is often used in the narrative around trans children, does not sound likely in this event, given they've driven them to a trans only swim session.

How can you not see that the issue is that this organisation are banning parents from being present, without giving any indication what safeguarding measures have been taken?