Trans Swimming sessions

[DaveDave]

Just saw the below event advertised at my local pool. How come this is ok but we can't have biologically female only swimming sessions? I'm annoyed, not because of the event, but because it seems impossible to have female only swimming without being accused of being transphobic.

"Been hoping for a swimming event that's only for trans, non-binary, and/or intersex people? Well, here it is!

To ensure privacy we have booked an entire public pool so it's just for us! Apart from the lifeguards, the rest of the building will be empty too, so there's no need to worry about which changing room to use or people staring. Whether you want to swim laps, float about, or just hang out, you're very welcome. We want these sessions to be accessible to as many people who need them, so if you need a carer who is cisgender to attend with you they are welcome to come along. Parents/guardians are welcome to come and wait in the changing rooms but will not be allowed in the pool or on the poolside.

VENUE: The venue will be given to you during booking to ensure privacy. Please do not advertise this information. You can arrive 15 minutes prior to our swimming session starting, but please note that if you arrive more than 15 minutes late you may be locked out. There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

CHANGING FACILITIES: The changing room is gender neutral, wheelchair accessible, and has individual changing and shower cubicles. Before swimming you'll have 15 mins to get ready, and 30 mins at the end.

AGE RANGE: This event is for all ages, but if you're under 18 you'll need to get a consent form signed. Just let us know when you're booking and we'll send you one to bring filled in on the day. Please bear in mind that we do not currently allow cisgender parents and guardians to be in the pool or on the poolside.

DRESS CODE: As always, genitals covered. If you have [insert word you're comfortable using for your chest/boobs/breast tissue] you'll need to have your chest covered too. A rash vest would be best, but if you don't have one or can't afford one a light weight t-shirt is also acceptable.

BOOKING: To book, or ask any questions, contact [email protected]. If you are disabled and need a cisgender carer to attend with you please let me know during booking.

COST: This event is free to attend but as a charity we welcome donations. You can donate on our website

www.rainbow-project.org/donate/ or there will be a donation bucket available at the event.

(redacted)

Add it doesn't say eight years old and over. We are assuming that, because that's the usual age children are allowed to swim on their own. Younger children that can and do go to venues, as long as there is another responsible adult. It doesn't have to be a parent.

So we could be talking about children who are much younger.

Forgot:

• Dice game teaching kids about anal and “docking”
• Family Sex Show with adult nudity in front of children, glossary on their website full of sex terms and telling to Google “animals that masturbate”

Stonewall employing Amy Challoner, who married a paedophile and took lots of photos of themselves and said spouse giggling on the way to Center Parcs. And was found to have zero understanding of what safeguarding even meant. Despite working for stonewall.

I am happy to admit prejudice here. Show me things have changed and I’ll challenge my own prejudices. Until then, I have zero trust in any organisation that doesn’t even see there’s a problem.

Same. And I don't give a flying fuck if people are trying to 'shame' me about it. In fact, it makes me even more committed. Because it just goes to show how many people are complicit.

Who was that perv who said children's minds should be open along with their legs - at a public show on the Southbank?

Parents aren’t banned, locked out of the building or excluded. They have to give explicit consent for all under 18s to attend, knowing that they would have to wait outside the pool area. They can choose whether they’re ok with that or not.

Meanwhile, all over the UK, children aged 8 and above can rock up at public pool sessions, change and swim without any parental involvement at all, with whoever else fancies being in that session.

But you’re determined to find reasons to be horrified at trans people setting up a much vaunted third space activity. So have at it. The only people you’re making look bad here is yourselves.

Anyone arguing that safeguarding for children is 'bigoted' may as well put out the red bunting, imo.

Meanwhile, all over the UK, children aged 8 and above can rock up at public pool sessions, change and swim without any parental involvement at all, with whoever else fancies being in that session.

Yes. It is safer for a child to be in public with the general public than it is for them to be in a locked space with people who have specifically chosen to be in a locked space with unsupervised children.

Do you think a child is safer:

1. in an open space where anyone could walk in at any time

or 2. in a locked space where adults know that others can't walk in at any time?

This is fairly basic logic.

Luckily no one has said that, or anything like it.

'The only people you’re making look bad here is yourselves.'

Women here are explaining how safeguarding works, and you're saying we're making ourselves 'look bad'.

Has anyone mentioned DBS checking? I volunteer with a couple of local charities helping children and we have been told we couldn't even hold a movie night without parents present unless every volunteer adult involved held a valid DBS certificate. And the children would not be getting dressed and undressed at a movie night!

To be kind, this is the problem with being "inclusion-focused". Being "safeguarding-focused" requires sitting through horrendous training on County lines and the impact on children of DV, so that you can prepare for and guard against the very worst things you can imagine.

it's a private pool which they are effectively using for a by-invitation-only event. I agree that the safeguarding of allowing kids but banning parents is a terrible idea but aside from that it's fine.

The venue isn't necessarily the same pool as where the advert was seen, as the venue is being kept out if the advertising. If the same venue won't also allow some feminists to organise a private biological-female-only event then they are being discriminatory as they are allowing members of one disadvantaged group to book a private event (which is a legitimate thing to do) but not another. I hope this trans event is very successful and becomes regularly repeated, and that there are also definitely-female-only events at the same place which also happen regularly and are well-attended

I’m racking my brains here, Datun ….

And if you cannot see that this is a valid comparison to reflect on, that might be a prejudice you need to address in yourself.

Apparently it’s “prejudice”. As I said, I am happy to hold prejudicial views on such organisations until they convince me otherwise.

Not read the full thread but why oh why do these people insist on piggybacking themselves onto the DSD community?
I love how they refuse to use the more up to date and acceptable scientific term of DSD or VSD, and stick with the old blurry "intersex", presumably because it gives the impression (incorrectly) that someone can somehow hover between sexes on a nebulous spectrum, be no sex at all, or decide what sex they are.

If I were someone with a DSD I would not be happy about routinely having my very real medical issue lumped in with some people who have "inner feelings" of being something they THINK they are.

Stop it.

DSDs are a REAL thing.

I hope this trans event is very successful and becomes regularly repeated, and that there are also definitely-female-only events at the same place which also happen regularly and are well-attended

How could they ensure it was female-only? They can’t even keep changing rooms female-only because males who want to get in are never challenged.

This is where the thread reaches it’s foregone conclusion any time someone points out the holes in the GC arguments against something trans people are doing.

Throwing random insults and slurs
Making up stuff that wasn’t said
Pasting lists of totally unrelated bad things that happened involving trans people
Spurious nonsense about kids being safer anywhere but where trans people are
“Women are talking about safeguarding” indignation

Like I said, have at it. Readers can see what’s happening here.

You want to find major and dangerous fault with this session whether it’s there or not. Even though it’s literally doing what you say you want, in creating a third space where trans people can swim without troubling cunty women.

Take a look at yourself and see that prejudice for what it is.

I'll like to add to the excellent list of 'things that could go wrong' that illustrate the lack of consideration given to safeguarding. Consent forms for under 18s will be sent when booking but signed forms are not required in advance and will only collected on the day. So what happens when a child arrives at the pool unaccompanied with no consent form or an unsigned form because they or their parent 'forgot'? Do the organisers let them in to swim, do they let them in but not in the water, do they make them ring their parents? The ad indicates that attendees can come along just to 'hang out'. What does that mean? Do the organisers think parental consent is needed for that?

Parents aren’t being told that. Datun just made that bit up.

You can read the OP for the part where they’re really clear, twice, that parents can wait in the building, and signed consent is needed for all under 18s.

Take a look at yourself and see that prejudice for what it is.

What about if the ad was for a private booking for anyone to turn up, adults and children can share the same gender neutral changing room and parents will be deliberately excluded from poolside, the doors will be locked, staff will be restricted to lifeguards and there’s no mobile phone reception.

Because that doesn’t sound OK to me either.

And no, that’s not the same as a public session at a public pool.

Like any other event where a consent form is required, the under 18 would be turned away if they didn’t have it.

Keep reaching. I’m sure if you all stretch hard enough there simply must be something, right? I mean, it’s those trans people you don’t trust in charge (and the lifeguards, and the pool organisation, but somehow they’re not getting the attention here), so there’s bound to be something awful and sinister and dangerous to children going on.

Making up stuff that wasn’t said

I copied and pasted your own words. You think people raising safeguarding concerns need to examine our own prejudices.

Pasting lists of totally unrelated bad things that happened involving trans people

A list of a number of occasions just in the last year or two where organisations have failed to protect children. The sector has zero credibility.

You still haven’t said why you’re so confident this organisation is different. Why are you so confident?

StrawberryFieldsForEveryone

There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

Lets hope that there is not an accident.

StrawberryFieldsForEveryone

There is very little phone reception by the pool so you may not be able to get in touch with anyone to let you into the building.

Lets hope that there is not an accident.

apologies for the double post