Meet the Other Phone. A phone that grows with your child.

Meet the Other Phone.
A phone that grows with your child.

Buy now

Please or to access all these features

Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

How do you speak up without being called transphobic

314 replies

Enterusername111333 · 30/12/2022 01:04

I just feel so lost... I don't know how to voice my opinion without accusations so I just take the easy option. Where does it end?

OP posts:
Thread gallery
6
Norma27 · 30/12/2022 09:12

OP as you will have noticed, the word transphobe will be thrown around to shut women up. It has no meaning.
Once you speak up about biological reality, you will see how many people agree and think the gender ideology movement is nonsense and even dangerous.
I work for a very woke stonewall champion firm, but all those I have spoken to agree with me even if afraid to be open about it because of the power the trans activists hold.
Wishing you well

BellaAmorosa · 30/12/2022 09:30

@Enterusername111333
Don't worry about being called transphobic. It is meaningless 99.9% of the time and is deployed to shut you up and make you too afraid or ashamed to question anything about this men's rights movement.
Chin up and carry on speaking up.

Abhannmor · 30/12/2022 09:31

WeAreGerbil · 30/12/2022 06:45

I remember the old trope "everything is homophobic" - turns out, they were right, but that old trope is being recycled for transphobia

What? I came out as a lesbian in 1989 and I don't remember people saying everything is homophobic and if they did no one was silenced to the degree that we are now.

Was just thinking the same thing. There was lots of anti gay stuff in the gutter press back then of course but I never saw any ' everything is homophobic ' comments.

As opposed to mad stories about loony left councils ' banning black bin bags shock horror - everything is racist these days !'

ZeldaFighter · 30/12/2022 09:44

EvilBee · 30/12/2022 01:16

Hiya, token trans person here,

What did you get called transphobic about?

Hi @EvilBee, please may I ask you a question? It's not a trap, I'm not really on social media so not really getting both sides of the discussion.

In what you know of the trans community, do people tend to think that they have genuinely changed sex? Ie because of the hormones or operations. Or do trans people think of themselves as their original sex but more likely to "pass"?

I'm interested to be more informed as I don't currently understand the motivations involved. Thank you

Signalbox · 30/12/2022 09:46

Enterusername111333 · 30/12/2022 01:04

I just feel so lost... I don't know how to voice my opinion without accusations so I just take the easy option. Where does it end?

OP you should start little things, small acts of rebellion. I tend not to bring the subject up myself but if someone else says something trans related I might say "I don't really agree with that" or "I am concerned that there is a conflict between trans rights and women's rights" or "I've read there are many feminists who have concerns and I think I agree with them" or "I just can't get behind males in women's sports" and then I change the subject rather than get into a heated debate. It is enough just to signal that you don't agree and you will probably start to feel that you are being true to yourself.

I don't use social media that is linked to friends and family for activism. If you want to tweet set up a separate account and use that so that you are not pissing off friends and family with your activism. I managed to estrange myself to one friend (of 25 years) by posting on SM that I thought JKR had a point (when she 1st tweeted) and this friend told me to f-off, blocked me and has not spoken to me since. Obviously most reasonable people will allow for a difference of opinion within a friendship and also some friends will agree with you. But there is always a small risk you will alienate some people.

But if you can't bring yourself to speak out you can do other things. Join WRN it may give you confidence to be in a local group. Write letters to your MP and other public people. Sign petitions. Support crowd funds of those who are being discriminated against. Set up a monthly subscription to Sex Matters. Throw as many virtual spanners into the works as you can on a regular basis. It all matters and it'll make you feel less helpless.

Branleuse · 30/12/2022 09:51

everything is transphobic. Even reality is transphobic.

Branleuse · 30/12/2022 09:53

Its become a meaningless term. Like blasphemy. It doesnt work when you dont actually believe in the religion

RoyalCorgi · 30/12/2022 09:56

The important thing to remember is that the trans rights movement is a men's rights movement, and they will do anything to shut you up. Spend half an hour on Twitter and you'll see all of the following accusations made against women: you're a transphobe, you're a bigot, you're a Nazi, you're a fascist, you're a homophobe, you're creepily obsessed with genitals*, you're ugly, you should be raped, you're too ugly to rape, etc etc etc ad nauseam. This is language that is designed to distress, frighten and intimidate, not just you, but other women who are put off speaking up because they don't want to be on the receiving end themselves. You can either let it intimidate you and stay silent or treat it as water off a duck's back and speak up. None of these accusations are anything to do with you, they're about the twisted, misogynistic minds of the person making the accusation.

  • Every accusation is an admission.
Elfholloway · 30/12/2022 10:00

Well there's a thread in Aibu right now with a poster not happy about men in a baby feeding room in a shop and in a changing room. No mention of trans whatsoever, but for one poster who has responded, the thread is apparently anti trans.
So yes literally anything can be transphobic.

DotDotaDash · 30/12/2022 10:03

EvilBee · Today 06:30
Safeguarding is attacking me for being a trans woman?

EvilBee I am interested in your experience.

Please could you give specific real life examples of these attacks?

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2022 10:23

Words are being deliberately re-engineered to mean new things.

To be 'transphobic' means to be a heretic, and to refuse to mouth the mantras of genderism.

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2022 10:24

RoyalCorgi · 30/12/2022 09:56

The important thing to remember is that the trans rights movement is a men's rights movement, and they will do anything to shut you up. Spend half an hour on Twitter and you'll see all of the following accusations made against women: you're a transphobe, you're a bigot, you're a Nazi, you're a fascist, you're a homophobe, you're creepily obsessed with genitals*, you're ugly, you should be raped, you're too ugly to rape, etc etc etc ad nauseam. This is language that is designed to distress, frighten and intimidate, not just you, but other women who are put off speaking up because they don't want to be on the receiving end themselves. You can either let it intimidate you and stay silent or treat it as water off a duck's back and speak up. None of these accusations are anything to do with you, they're about the twisted, misogynistic minds of the person making the accusation.

  • Every accusation is an admission.

100%.

The sheer volume of ad homs is unpleasant and yes, intimidating, but it also reveals that this movement has no actual arguments behind it. It runs purely on manufactured emotionally manipulative narratives.

There's no logic, only 'you're a bad person, be a nice person, feel sorry for this person, hate this person'

Boiledbeetle · 30/12/2022 10:31

Sparklybutold · 30/12/2022 08:12

@Boiledbeetle ah BB - I need to take some inspiration from this. Loved what you did with ‘terf’ too. I didn't want to bring up the ‘cis’, but you were braver than I. Only the other day did I learn it's origin - fucking hell.

It appears I may have been a bit too forthright in my live action EXAMPLE of what the poster was accusing us of doing everytime we accidentally misgender a transperson by turning the exact words we get thrown at us but thrown at the poster for using CIS in front of words.

There will come a day when we are once again free to not have to police our every thought and word, spoken and written and mumsnet will be free enough from online scrutiny and censor to let us speak freely.

Today is not that day it seems.

Caturday · 30/12/2022 10:33

It's because they are male* Sparklybutold*

We know it, they know it.

Everyone knows it.

Datun · 30/12/2022 10:35

EvilBee · 30/12/2022 07:19

I didn't get you started lol..if you want to talk about old Blanchardian nonsense I can, but as someone who has read into that particular silliness, you'll have a hard time.

For your benefit, I will say that AGP is a minor thing amongst cisgender men and that anyone who is sexually motivated to transition should note that transition meds will do a number on your sex drive so you won't feel motivated to continue as those of us who have a sex change are.

In 99% of cases 'AGP' and 'HSTS' is used as a homophobic trope i.e. that we can separate trans women on the basis that (a) they're oversexed or (b) they're perverted. It's all the same shit that has been levelled at LGBT people for a long time.

I can write essays on how bad Blanchard's stuff was (and is) but modern research has moved onto the neuropsychology of trans existence. I'd recommend this article as a starter and lit review:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235900/

Well that might carry more weight, if AGP men didn't plaster their proclivities from one end of the Internet to the other. And yes they are just as trans has anyone else according to stonewall. And certainly the Scottish government.

And, slow handclap for trying to discredit the women who have accumulated upwards of 5000 posts on this board regarding their experience of living with AGP men.

Datun · 30/12/2022 10:38

Op, unjustifiably being called transphobic is a way of shutting you down.

Most people disagree with this ideology, but many are afraid to say so.

If you want to ease into it, start with sport. Most people, however sexist, do not really subscribe to the idea that men should be competing in women's sport.

MargaretMead · 30/12/2022 10:38

MargaretMead · 30/12/2022 02:51

Ridiculous isn’t it?

I regarded myself as a trans ally and am fairly gender non conforming but it is tiresome that any questioning, however reasonable and evidence based, will elicit howls of transphobia from activists and their allies.

Its a sad fact that penises are sometimes used weapons of war or instruments of torture. Some refugee women very sadly have this experience and they have self excluded from events in buildings that have mixed sex toilets, because they don’t feel safe. I have learned to be careful when planning events for them and had to turn a venue down for hire last summer because of its unisex toilets. When I told the venue why we couldn’t use them, the booking agent accused me of transphobia.

No, I just want these women who have been through hell to benefit from and feel safe participating in a social activity together. That means minimising the risk of encountering people with penises in the ladies loos (whether the penis owner is cis, trans, whatever).

Ok, so I put this scenario on another forum yesterday, very politely I thought - the post was taken down and I’m banned for transphobia. Which tells us that the militant trans rights movement is a men’s rights movement. What reasonable human being would deny support to some of the most traumatised and disadvantaged women on earth? Women who fled a war torn country, spent sometimes years in refugee camps, where toilets were a magnet for assault.

These women need to connect with one another in a space that feels safe for them. From experience, if facilities are not female only, most go home and self exclude from future events. Why should their needs be brushed aside?

Anyway, back to the original question. I made sure that my organisation’s safeguarding policy is explicit about this issue and centres sex rather than gender. The policy is cascaded to the rest of the organisation and sometimes goes to external organisations too. I find that in real life, professionals generally understand, and if there are questions there is an opportunity to educate.

Soontobe60 · 30/12/2022 10:39

EvilBee · 30/12/2022 07:19

I didn't get you started lol..if you want to talk about old Blanchardian nonsense I can, but as someone who has read into that particular silliness, you'll have a hard time.

For your benefit, I will say that AGP is a minor thing amongst cisgender men and that anyone who is sexually motivated to transition should note that transition meds will do a number on your sex drive so you won't feel motivated to continue as those of us who have a sex change are.

In 99% of cases 'AGP' and 'HSTS' is used as a homophobic trope i.e. that we can separate trans women on the basis that (a) they're oversexed or (b) they're perverted. It's all the same shit that has been levelled at LGBT people for a long time.

I can write essays on how bad Blanchard's stuff was (and is) but modern research has moved onto the neuropsychology of trans existence. I'd recommend this article as a starter and lit review:

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC6235900/

You’re entitled to your opinion. So is everyone else. What would you say about the many transwomen who would describe themselves as AGP? Or those who don’t have any medical interventions that would impact their sex drive? Breast implants are very common in transwomen, removal of the penis to create a pseudo vagina far less so. In fact, many self identifying transwomen make no body modifications at all. How do you explain that away?
I am pleased that you’ve acknowledged that taking opposite sex hormones “will do a number on your sex drive”. Personally, I find it somewhat sad that this information doesn’t seem to be shared with people as much as it should.

Joshitai · 30/12/2022 10:45

GCAcademic · 30/12/2022 07:13

Being gender critical is the opposite of being socially conservative. Gender critical feminism wants to abolish gender stereotypes, not reinforce them. Unlike trans activists, I don’t believe that not fitting a socially-constructed mould of masculinity makes someone a woman.

That’s the claim, but the reality not so much

”Gender-critical’ feminists (e.g. Jeffreys, 2014b) often argue that ‘trans activists’ reinforce stereotypical gender roles – for example, promoting that a woman must look and act in a particularly feminine way. In our data, however, hetero- and cisnormative systems and structures (protected by ‘gender-critical’ feminists and others), pressured trans people to act and present according to specific, normative gender expectations in order to keep themselves safe (see also Bender-Baird, 2016). Of course, cisgender women, too, have to meet these standards; gender non-conforming and butch cisgender women are also subject to misgendering and violence in women’s toilets (Cavanagh, 2010; Munt, 1998). Surveillance in women-only toilets therefore reinforces the rules that gender-critical feminists claim they want to abolish.”
journals.sagepub.com/doi/full/10.1177/0038026120934697

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2022 10:46

Please don't use 'cisgender', it's an offensive term not allowed on these boards. 'Women' is fine. Thanks.

pattihews · 30/12/2022 10:49

There's almost nothing you can say that can't be termed transphobic these days, so it's an empty insult/ criticism lobbed by idiots. Once I understood that, I stopped caring if someone called me transphobic. You have to rise above all the name-calling and speak out to protect your and others' children and to stand up for women and rational thought.

Start by talking about sport. No one in their right mind believes that it's okay to allow men to compete against women in sports. Once you've raised that a few times and got nothing but support, start talking about loos and changing rooms. All the polls and evidence indicates that 90% of the population will agree with you.

Write to your MP stating where you stand on the issue. That's possibly the most important thing you can do, because no amount of talking about this among friends does any good if our legislators don't know how we feel.

Contact Women's Rights Network as a place to start.
www.womensrights.network
They sell leaflets that you can distribute once you've started talking about gender ideology and have met other women in your area who share your opinion and want to do something about it. I've found that leafletting in the street is a great way of encouraging others to start speaking out — and as 9 out of 10 people I randomly talk to are GC, it's a great way of reassuring myself that while our leaders have gone trans-mad, ordinary people on the street are clear that there are two sexes and that men are men and women are women.

Datun · 30/12/2022 10:51

EvilBee · 30/12/2022 06:28

The pain I get from being kicked for being perceived as a gay man are not the same as I get from being a trans woman? Are you suggesting that the latter is justified and I deserve it?

No, as we keep saying, male violence is a scourge.

WeAreGerbil · 30/12/2022 10:51

Surveillance in women-only toilets therefore reinforces the rules that gender-critical feminists claim they want to abolish

I'm not sure how many GC feminists have actually challenged "masculine" women in toilets - I suspect it's tiny. But if we are being more vigilant it's because men are muscling in on our space, it's not something GC women would have worried about before. So women get blamed for a situation that men have created. Plus ça change.

ArabellaScott · 30/12/2022 10:52

It is an empty insult, which is unfortunately given weight by the police.

As in - absolutely anything at all can be termed 'transphobic' and reported to the police to be recorded as a 'Non Crime Hate Incident'. There are no criteria to what constitutes 'transphobic', as the definition rests entirely on the perception of the person reporting (who does not have to be trans, fwiw).

'A single distinct event or occurrence which disturbs an individual, group or community’s quality of life or causes them concern.'

Brave New World.

www.college.police.uk/app/major-investigation-and-public-protection/hate-crime/responding-non-crime-hate-incidents/changes

DuesToTheDirt · 30/12/2022 10:52

Sparklybutold · 30/12/2022 07:51

@Messyhair321 the more I've seen of this issue the more I've seen there seems to be a dominant type of TW who I think do more damage to the trans community. It isn't about freedom of expression for them but about power and control.

Totally agree. And it's these people, with their threats of violence, rape, revenge porn (and sometimes of course actual violence) that prove to me that TW are not women - this is not female behaviour.