Am I a TERF?

[PurplePalms]

Discovered today a family member (male) is dating a transwoman.

Absolutely no idea on the status of her transition, hormones/surgery etc. as that’s her business. I have met her a handful of times and she is polite and pleasant. A very nice person.

My family member doesn’t know I know because …

I was having a snoop at her Facebook page, saw old posts and photos from when she was younger living as a male and recently saw a post from her stating “Transmen are real men. Transwomen are real women”.

This just didn’t sit right with me.

For what it’s worth, I’d consider myself quite liberal. I don’t discriminate on sexuality, race, age, gender etc. If you’re born a man and feel like you want to medically transition and vice Versa, that’s fine, do your thing and accept you’re trans.

BUT, to then say you are a real woman. Even though you were born genetically male and (most likely) have male genitalia- you can’t be a real woman? You can’t possibly understand how it feels to be a woman. Hormonally, emotionally, physically and socially.

Part of me feels awful for feeling this way. Like I am a bad person. Obviously I would never say to her face “you are not a real woman” never in a million years would I want to cause someone upset, start drama etc. Am I a terf? Do I sound awful?

And that, reader, is the usual result. No or very few questions answered, while claiming the discussion is a) boring b) phobic as hell or c) actually, I have not seen a third alternative.

Just a wonderful drive by ‘authoritative’ post to make out that posters should ‘get out more and speak to actual trans people’, as if many posters don’t have trans loved ones in their daily life.

Plus ca change.

Yet… we are the boring, unintelligent ones living in some kind of delusion.

no. Nothing new here to see.

Nothing new here to see.

And that includes the appointment of someone who has a high likelihood of being male, speaking for females that are supposedly in their ‘community’.

I am very happy to be proved wrong about that though.

‘Self appointment’

I fear being labelled negatively as a terf

Embrace it or ignore it.

for being upset my experiences as being a woman (sexual assault, sexual harassment, cat calling, pay inequalities, sexism, misogyny, health issues, fertility) can be compared and seen as the same as someone who was born a male but now lives as female.

The trans position is that not all women share the same experiences, therefore these things neither define nor unite women. They claim that belief is all you need. Sounds like a religion to me. Do you believe yourself to be a bigot because you do not embrace a person's religion?

It’s not fair.

It is not. Not to women, anyway. It is a Men's Rights movement.

Interestingly, the Gender Critical position is far fairer to all, including to believers in gender. As JK Rowling said:

^Dress however you please.
Call yourself whatever you like.
Sleep with any consenting adult who’ll have you.
Live your best life in peace and security.
But force women out of their jobs for stating that sex is real?^

I’m a TERF. I like being a TERF. One reason for being a TERF is that no single person who thinks that a man can be a woman and vice versa can provide a sensible explanation as to how this can be the case. In my experience they mumble something about it being very complicated or they get very angry (because they realise they can’t answer it), which then serves the purpose of deflecting from the question.
Not to mention keeping women’s single sex spaces, single sex.
And I am sorry to say, @EvilBee , that the definition of woman as used above isn’t a recent “invention”.

And it's very telling isn't it

The introduction from our friend

Hiya, Trans person here,

Just like all those posts that start

Hiya, man here.

They can't help themselves.

PS Bye, @EvilBee
Judging by your excessive use of the words “literally” and “like”, I estimate you’re probably, literally, like 19.

Job done then😁I've always said they do it for us.

Indeed Boiled.

Mind you, I did this this poster would stay and answer questions.

I mean, they hypocritically appointed themselves as the speaker for a huge group of diverse people, including trying to convince us that they also speak for females with a trans identity and encouraged the OP to visit and ‘talk’ with trans people, yet ignored any questions that they, a self appointed designate, felt ‘too boring’ to answer.

Why on earth would anyone bother to post questions on a trans forum with that example of behaviour from a self-appointed trans spokesperson?

Good thing we actually DO know trans people in real life @EvilBee so we know that actually, you literally don’t represent them.

Think. Not a double this.

It would have been interesting to read a different perspective.

I'm annoyed he didn't stick around to answer the single sex discos bad autocorrect wrong word question on behalf of trans people everywhere.

I thought as the squeaker of the new free world he would at least answer a simple one.

Obviously trained under Nicola.

But they don't have one, though.

Their perspective is - Transwomen are Women STFU TERF. You're boring me. -> exit.

How many times have we seen it now?

What a div.

They seem to have given up on this thread, but they've not given up entirely: now they're claiming that not teaching gender ideology to children is another Section 28 https://www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4706367-petition-against-teaching-gender-identity-ideology-in-rse-lessons-in-schools?reply=122606603

He's on a pub crawl, I've been about half a pint behind him on a couple of thread.

I think that's how many of us have ended up here OP - the dawning realisation that the current trans rights movement is based on the belief that there's absolutely no material difference between you and I and men who identify as women. Essentially it advocates for the eradication of biological sex (in social practice and in law) and the primacy of gender identity.

This.

Although I would add: it is not the primacy of gender identity so much as the primacy of biological males claiming a gender identity, over female biological realities, needs, access and inclusion.

It remains entirely sex based, and reflective of entirely dimorphic sex based thinking. It is always about male and female, not about trans and not trans.

Also note the ever familiar refrain that if you'd just sympathetically listen to and prioritise the feelings and voice of a person who identifies as TQ+, all would fall into place...

you will never, ever find anywhere, any exhortation to try sympathetically listening to and caring about a female who needs a female only space. Which tells you everything you need to know really.

It is dimorphic sex based thinking. Heavily misogyinistic sex based thinking. The 't friendly' space mentioned (as being so much better than this woman centred one) would be one heavily biased in favour of biological males and fine with using, oppressing, excluding and abusing biological females. It will all be dressed up in a lot of word salad but that's what it will come down to.

It is always about male and female, not about trans and not trans.

100%.

Funny how male behavioural patterns persist so clearly.

It amuses me that TRAs get themselves in such a state if you write transwoman instead of trans woman as the space is so terribly important but then use the term TERF instead of TWERF. They know full well that it's males we are excluding from our feminism but by calling us TERFs means they are omitting the space

OP, this thread may help

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3145470-Break-it-down-for-me

"how it feels to be a woman"

How does it feel to be a woman? There will be certain experiences shared between member of the same sex and how they are treated in society, however, a feeling is always personal. There is no one "feeling like a woman".

"Do I sound awful?"

That depends on who you ask. But fwiw no, of course not.

How does it feel to be a woman? There will be certain experiences shared between member of the same sex and how they are treated in society, however, a feeling is always personal. There is no one "feeling like a woman"

I disagree.

Oh I don't know there is that feeling you get sometimes when things are just going tits up for (insert to many to mention reasons why here) it washes over you like a blanket of fog and anger and regret and sadness and despair and resignation and you know, you just Fucking know if you were a male this would not be happening to you today.

or maybe that's just me

How can you know that what you feel, as a woman, is the same as what I feel, what JK Rowling feels, what Scott Nugent feels, what Nicola Sturgeon feels, what any woman feels? The only thing we all have in common is that we all have two X chromosomes and the complete lack of a Y chromosome. Not whether or not we identify as women.