Am I a TERF?

[PurplePalms]

Discovered today a family member (male) is dating a transwoman.

Absolutely no idea on the status of her transition, hormones/surgery etc. as that’s her business. I have met her a handful of times and she is polite and pleasant. A very nice person.

My family member doesn’t know I know because …

I was having a snoop at her Facebook page, saw old posts and photos from when she was younger living as a male and recently saw a post from her stating “Transmen are real men. Transwomen are real women”.

This just didn’t sit right with me.

For what it’s worth, I’d consider myself quite liberal. I don’t discriminate on sexuality, race, age, gender etc. If you’re born a man and feel like you want to medically transition and vice Versa, that’s fine, do your thing and accept you’re trans.

BUT, to then say you are a real woman. Even though you were born genetically male and (most likely) have male genitalia- you can’t be a real woman? You can’t possibly understand how it feels to be a woman. Hormonally, emotionally, physically and socially.

Part of me feels awful for feeling this way. Like I am a bad person. Obviously I would never say to her face “you are not a real woman” never in a million years would I want to cause someone upset, start drama etc. Am I a terf? Do I sound awful?

I completely get that! & I agree. I don’t like to called CIS. I’m female. I’m a woman.

@PurplePalms oh that sentence proves it 100% TERF.

😁welcome to your new home.

I've had that tried on me. "TW are real women".

What's a real woman then?

Because that's a demand to repeat a comforting lie to sooth a male ego, and that's the limit of it.

Frankly OP, if you don't believe in the sex based inferiority of women, don't believe in the subordination of women and children's rights and safety and protections to male whims and sexual freedoms, or don't believe in compelled speech and performance of some with criminal punishment to serve special others with more rights than others, or believe in lies set in our legal system?Then yes, you're a Terf. And why worry about it. If you did believe in those things you'd have a much bigger problem.

Agree with this.

Actually whilst I'm in this thread anyone any good at creating questionnaires?

I feel our new member won't be the only refugee once people are back to work and the women of Scotland get talking to each other properly for the first time since the vote.

We might need something to streamline the process so we can do a basic triage assessment with regards shock and horror of being a terf whilst we feed them tea and biscuits.

Then later once the shock has worn off we can do a more in-depth check in where their head is with the whole be kind to the man in a frock, sex is a spectrum, a piece of paper means you LITERALLY change sex stuff.

Welcome to the reality side where science rules! Be proud of your common sense and critical thinking skills. You are among like-minded women here (mainly) and you will learn much from them.

Hiya, Trans person here,

I mean the saying "trans men are men.." could end with trans men are men, but not cis (not-trans) men" and 95% of trans ppl would agree.

The 'real' thing is weird. What is a 'real man / woman'? Personally such vague language sends me up the wall.

You should post this in a trans friendly space as well (? /r/asktransgender) for interest.

Are you a TERF? Like personally I reserve TERF for actual anti-trans feminists and 'gender critical' for the 99%..are you a radical feminist who wants to exclude trans women?

It's kinda moot - you have a choice as to whether you wanna 'live and let live' with this trans woman? Personally I don't give a monkeys what your beliefs are as long as you're not trying to remove my rights or slight me to my face. Perhaps just talk to her and try and understand her experiences?

What is a 'real man / woman'? Personally such vague language sends me up the wall.

You're quite right - 'woman' is perfectly clear and has a definite meaning. Adding 'real' to it is a tautology.

@EvilBee Perhaps just talk to her and try and understand her experiences?

She doesn’t know I know. I haven’t spoken about this with anyone I know.

I would never directly ask her, or my family member, “Hey, you’re trans, can I ask some questions?” That’s not my place to bring that up. I feel that’s invasive.

I wouldn’t know what a “radical” feminist is. If you or someone could explain please.

I wouldn’t want to exclude her or any transwomen from things such as family get togethers, activities we do that have nothing to do with gender (as me and her have just spent Christmas with my extended family).

But I feel uncomfortable knowing she openly posts on her social media stating “Transwomen are real women”.

She wouldn’t be included when I am talking to my female family members and friends about my gynaecological issues. As she wouldn’t be able to relate or understand.

Not interested in getting into another "we've invented this definition and we've decided you should stick to it" type argument, Arabella, it's anti-intellectual and very, very boring.

Thanks for the low effort troll tho.

Invented the definition of 'woman'? Okay, pet.

Just out of interest, what ‘rights’ do you refer to with:

“you're not trying to remove my rights”

Does that have any impact on who is a terf in your mind or not?

Since I’ve heard them having intercourse in our family members house we were all staying at over at during Christmas.

Ugh! Grim and really bad manners.

[hmmm]

That is a strange reply. Who ‘invented’ what definition?

Radical feminism is a specific strand of feminsm that generally is distinguished from more recent liberal feminism, OP.

Very, very loosely: 'opposing the sexual objectification of women, raising public awareness about such issues as rape and violence against women, challenging the concept of gender roles'

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Radical_feminism

She wouldn’t be included when I am talking to my female family members and friends about my gynaecological issues. As she wouldn’t be able to relate or understand.

You have every right to assert your own boundaries. IMO any male trying to claim a right to female only spaces is a misogynist and clearly demonstrating that they do not understand the experience of woman.

I mean, @PurplePalms, like I said, I can speak for most trans people and they're far more interested in your actions than your beliefs..and you don't sound like you're not someone who wants to make another person uncomfortable, so perhaps just let differences in ?ontological beliefs lie and just be two people who get on for lots of other reasons?

Like, I have discussions with people at work and friends all the time about differences in our beliefs, but we can still hold mutual respect and love.

I hope that some help x

TERF excludes all trans people regardless of their sex.

Not 'just' Transwomen.

I can speak for most trans people

No. You can speak for you.

The rest they can speak for themselves

Personally I don't give a monkeys what your beliefs are as long as you're not trying to remove my rights or slight me to my face.

Sounds nice and rational, and what most of the women posting on this board will also say.

The question is, EvilBee, what are your rights? Are you a transwoman claiming the right to express your beliefs and sense of self without being ill-treated, regardless whether you are in a men's single sex space or a unisex space? Or are you a transwoman claiming the right to freely access all single sex women's spaces?

She wouldn’t be included when I am talking to my female family members and friends about my gynaecological issues. As she wouldn’t be able to relate or understand

Did they attempt to intrude on these while they were with you? Because no, this would be disrespectful to take part in conversations where a person expects to be only having this conversation in a single sex environment. If the male doesn’t excuse themselves (obviously neutrally) then that is inappropriate and questionable behaviour.

TERF is the new witch, the new word to dehumanize women to justify violence against them. It has a very negative connotation because trans activists made it so.

Even asking a question makes you a "TERF". Only unwavering blind devotion to gender ideology makes you not a TERF. So you can be a cultist or a TERF.

So welcome to the coven lol

You are not a bad person for asking questions or having doubts. This is not a normal every day situation. Personally I find it very offensive for them to act like they are just the same as women. We have a right to our own experiences and words. Appropriating those is just disrespectful.

I mean @YoBeaches the position I've seen many times being expressed is that they'll include trans guys, but obviously any self-respecting trans guy will take that as an insult. Like none of the dozens of guys I've spoken to would consider that as in any way a good thing.

It's kinda moot tho.

I suppose the original meaning of 'trans exclusionary' in relation to feminism is women who said that males couldn't include themselves in the class of 'women'.

Of course no male can ever be female; we are a dimorphic mammals and come in two sexes. Sex is immutable. I expect most trans people are perfectly aware of that, so reality is that nobody can be 'included' in a class which they are by definition not a member of. To 'identify' as something which one isn't is a meaningless nonsense in real life.

As you note, OP, no male will ever experience the things that most women have to deal with that are a fairly large part of living as a woman.

Linguistically and legally, is a different matter, of course.

TERF excludes all trans people regardless of their sex.

Hence it is an inaccurate description, as we include transmen in our feminism - they being female.

A more accurate description would be TWERF, or even MERF.