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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Heroes walk among us

279 replies

FatEaredFuck · 22/12/2022 20:06

@GussetGripper

Do take a bow! (At least, I really think this is you?!)

OP posts:
Slothtoes · 27/12/2022 08:53

Thank you Hellofabore for sharing it.

ArabellaScott · 27/12/2022 09:10

over 4x as many respondents said no as said yes.

Yeah, but that was just a bunch of women.

PaterPower · 27/12/2022 09:18

Well at least the summary leaves no doubt, for anyone reading it, that there was any sort of majority support for the bill.

I read a post on this site recently that suggested GRR would be Sturgeon’s Poll Tax. One can only live in hope.

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2022 10:23

Just looked at the consultation responses. Absolutely astounding in the resounding lack of popular support for this Bill. The arrogance of SNP to just ignore it speaks volumes. As others have said, at least this is now on clear record that there is no overwhelming public support.

What was the point of this exercise if the Scottish Government are just going to pooh pooh every comment they don't agree with? Someone should tell them You're supposed to at least pretend to care what the voters think!

Interesting how it's claimed by supporters that those against are somehow unrepresentative, and that although smaller in number they are the true voice of public opinion. And the nasty old women are only doing it to be mean to them! I mean we can't possibly have actual concerns. The only possible reason for anyone to do anything must centre around them, surely? Not like we have anything else to do is it? 🙄

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2022 10:28

Striking contrast between the tone of comments for and against: the former largely emotive and unevidenced, the latter setting out considered, evidenced concerns. It's actually a great summary of both sides that's easily accessible in the public domain. Share it!

Also intersting was that the report quoted the term "astroturfing" which I assume is a play on the word terf? Can you imagine an offensive term relating to the supporters being included in the write up? Me neither.

Waitwhat23 · 27/12/2022 10:28

In all the replies from my MSP's who voted for the Bill, they mentioned 'public support' but carefully avoided mentioning either the decreasing support for the Bill in each subsequent consultation (the results of the 2nd took almost a year to come out) or the fact that the results of the Call for Evidence/Views showed a very clear majority against the Bill.

They just don't care and will outright lie to the electorate. Consultations done by the Scottish Government are beyond pointless.

Boiledbeetle · 27/12/2022 10:30

www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/committees/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee/gender-recognition-bill/equalities-committee-summary-of-short-survey-grr-bill-responses.pdf

Urghhhhhh having refused to read this link over the last couple of days I've just got around to read it.

How disingenuous to put the YES comments and word bubble things first when it becomes much clearer when you get to the results that NO are much more the majority.

Plus having read that summary how could all those politicians stand in parliament and state some of the things they said is beyond me. Was there no thought of investigating as to why so many of the respondents seemed to have genuine valid concerns. Don't answer we all know the answer to that one.

It's telling the yes comments are very me me me me me. The no comments were more Will someone think of the vulnerable women in the prisons, the children, the women who'll be disadvantaged by this, the lack of medical, any, oversight and checks.

This will not look good for them when this eventually all comes tumbling down.

Slothtoes · 27/12/2022 10:33

It’s misogyny on stilts that’s for sure and a very dark time for women’s rights. Who do these fuckers fucking think they are?
Only 1/3 of the responses were from outside Scotland. And >4:1 of the total responses were against this shite. So that’s a vast, vast proportion of Scottish voters at the next election who will be absolutely disgusted the more of them who hear about the real world effects of this.

We know most elected politicians (with some admirable exceptions of course) couldn’t give the tiniest shit about women’s rights, but in general they all do really care about being re-elected. So rise up women! Let’s all keep making noise about this wherever we live in the UK. Flowers

Waitwhat23 · 27/12/2022 10:35

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2022 10:28

Striking contrast between the tone of comments for and against: the former largely emotive and unevidenced, the latter setting out considered, evidenced concerns. It's actually a great summary of both sides that's easily accessible in the public domain. Share it!

Also intersting was that the report quoted the term "astroturfing" which I assume is a play on the word terf? Can you imagine an offensive term relating to the supporters being included in the write up? Me neither.

Astroturfing is, as far as I can remember, a term for a movement being presented as being a grassroots movement but in actuality is backed by large organisations/power.

It's a claim often made by TRA's against women fighting for their rights but given the Denton document etc is just DARVO.

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2022 11:08

Ah ok thanks for clarifying!

It's still a ridiculous criticism.

Moonatics · 27/12/2022 11:14

Slothtoes · 27/12/2022 08:52

By the way, just in case anyone missed this. Here is a link to the consultation results.

Imagine a government who completely ignores the results of a consultation such as this? And ignores public opinion polls that match this result?

www.parliament.scot/-/media/files/committees/equalities-human-rights-and-civil-justice-committee/gender-recognition-bill/equalities-committee-summary-of-short-survey-grr-bill-responses.pdf

OMG that consultation report.
it’s absurd! over 4x as many respondents said no as said yes.

So there aren't only 6 of us! Good to know

TheBiologyStupid · 27/12/2022 15:28

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2022 10:28

Striking contrast between the tone of comments for and against: the former largely emotive and unevidenced, the latter setting out considered, evidenced concerns. It's actually a great summary of both sides that's easily accessible in the public domain. Share it!

Also intersting was that the report quoted the term "astroturfing" which I assume is a play on the word terf? Can you imagine an offensive term relating to the supporters being included in the write up? Me neither.

Not sure if the use of "astroturfing" was a deliberate attempt at a slur. According to Wikipedia:
The term astroturfing is derived from AstroTurf, a brand of synthetic carpeting designed to resemble natural grass, as a play on the word "grassroots". The implication behind the use of the term is that instead of a "true" or "natural" grassroots effort behind the activity in question, there is a "fake" or "artificial" appearance of support.

TheBiologyStupid · 27/12/2022 15:36

One of the brilliant responses from someone who completed a longer more detailed submission as part of the Scottish government's so-called consultation: yourviews.parliament.scot/ehrcj/1e24dbb1/consultation/view_respondent?_b_index=600&uuId=266462780

crunchermuncher · 27/12/2022 18:08

That response is logical gold, brava that respondent.

Boiledbeetle · 27/12/2022 18:11

If you have any comments on the offences of knowingly making a false application or including false information.

Please share your thoughts on the offences

I am interested in how an application where all criteria are met, and continue to be met, could ever be determined to be false. If you require me to live in my acquired gender until I die, then you have to tell me what that entails, including what would be considered a breach of this requirement. If you don’t do this, then it will not be fair to then criminalise me for failing to fulfil this requirement. If you do tell me, and I fulfil all requirements placed on me, then how could my application ever be considered false?

If living in my acquired gender requires me to change the title on my utility bills to Mr, and I do that for the rest of my life, along with anything else similar you require, then even although I will be living in the acquired gender for the purpose of demonstrating the extent to which the Scottish Government has razed the concepts of ‘man’ and ‘woman’ to the ground, it cannot be false, as I will be fulfilling all the requirements placed on me to make use of this law.

and yet we got to the amendments being read out in parliament yet they still couldn't and wouldn't answer this Fucking question.

How? How can it ever be determined to be a false application?

Buzzinwithbez · 27/12/2022 20:58

If you have any comments on the offences of knowingly making a false application or including false information.

Despite it to be logically impossible to be proved someone made a false declaration, I'm really worried this will make it really scary for particularly young people who may come to realise they would prefer to live as their sex after all to be able to do so in a timely enough manner to not be caused additional physical and emotional harm.

Boiledbeetle · 27/12/2022 21:12

Yeah lots of depressed, disillusioned 19 year old who realise that they've fucked up massively but think they have no way out.

Yay way to go Scottish Government that's going to work wonders for the most oppressed suicide stats

Slothtoes · 28/12/2022 06:04

That’s a brilliant response Flowers

Datun · 28/12/2022 10:19

Since then, I have been in extensive correspondence with people including Roger Halliday the Chief Statistician (who thought “if a person considers himself a male and is most comfortable referring to his personal gender in masculine terms, then his gender identity is male” was a suitable explanation for children), Shirley-Anne Somerville (who could also only mention stereotypes such as clothing and mannerisms when asked about the attributes of gender identity), and the Department for Statistics Regulation who are at the moment conducting a review into the gender identity question in the Scottish Household Survey as a result of my correspondence with them.

I am astounded not only by the lack of clarity here, particularly when children and young people are involved, but also by the refusal to acknowledge that clarity might be important at all.

The Scottish Government have completely corrupted the meaning of boy and girl, so that a boy is no longer a child born male, but is now one with an identity of a 'boy'. But this still requires 'boy' to have some kind of meaning in order to be adopted as an identity, and none is being offered. 'Boy' has been completely hollowed out as a meaningful concept for children and they have been provided with absolutely nothing of substance with which to fill it up again. In and of itself that is troubling enough but it is even more so when you consider that the understanding children form around these ideas can set them towards life changing decisions about their bodies and if this Bill becomes law, legal implications including potential criminalisation.

Absolute muppets. I wonder which they would rather be thought of? As dangerous, frothing, ideologically driven zealots, unmoored from reality and happy to utilise vulnerable women and children as dispensable props.

Or power crazy, deceitful, self serving zealots, cynically utilising vulnerable women and children as dispensable props to further their power grab.

ArtfullyCrumpled · 28/12/2022 13:21

#elaine is trending on Twitter (in Scotland).

RoyalCorgi · 28/12/2022 13:25

I don't know if the person who made that response is on here, but if so, have a pat on the back from me. It's absolutely brilliant. Any MSP or Scottish civil servant who had a hand in this legislation should read that response and feel profound shame at their own inadequacy and their complicity in harming women and children.

Waitwhat23 · 28/12/2022 13:27

Datun · 28/12/2022 10:19

Since then, I have been in extensive correspondence with people including Roger Halliday the Chief Statistician (who thought “if a person considers himself a male and is most comfortable referring to his personal gender in masculine terms, then his gender identity is male” was a suitable explanation for children), Shirley-Anne Somerville (who could also only mention stereotypes such as clothing and mannerisms when asked about the attributes of gender identity), and the Department for Statistics Regulation who are at the moment conducting a review into the gender identity question in the Scottish Household Survey as a result of my correspondence with them.

I am astounded not only by the lack of clarity here, particularly when children and young people are involved, but also by the refusal to acknowledge that clarity might be important at all.

The Scottish Government have completely corrupted the meaning of boy and girl, so that a boy is no longer a child born male, but is now one with an identity of a 'boy'. But this still requires 'boy' to have some kind of meaning in order to be adopted as an identity, and none is being offered. 'Boy' has been completely hollowed out as a meaningful concept for children and they have been provided with absolutely nothing of substance with which to fill it up again. In and of itself that is troubling enough but it is even more so when you consider that the understanding children form around these ideas can set them towards life changing decisions about their bodies and if this Bill becomes law, legal implications including potential criminalisation.

Absolute muppets. I wonder which they would rather be thought of? As dangerous, frothing, ideologically driven zealots, unmoored from reality and happy to utilise vulnerable women and children as dispensable props.

Or power crazy, deceitful, self serving zealots, cynically utilising vulnerable women and children as dispensable props to further their power grab.

Your first bit made me think of this -

Heroes walk among us
Helleofabore · 28/12/2022 16:54

landOFconfusion · 24/12/2022 22:59

A protest action that requires esoteric knowledge to be interpreted is a failed protest.

The only people that this protest will appeal to are people who are already high on the farts of GC ideology.

How little you seem to understand about females….. have you checked out that petition now? Check out the map.

Yeah. But what was it you said?

A ‘failed’ protest? You wish.

Oh… and ‘that it only serves as a rallying call’ … although to remind you what you said in your absolute hatred for people who disagree with you ”The only people that this protest will appeal to are people who are already high on the farts of GC ideology.”

Is there an award for the most snidey poster who ridiculously misses the entire fucking point of a woman protesting votes in parliament???

Waitwhat23 · 13/01/2023 12:57

To cheer everyone up!

www.scotsman.com/news/politics/police-scotland-drop-investigation-into-gender-recognition-reform-flasher-protest-3985525

And unsurprisingly-

'Officers said they had concluded there was no criminality following an investigation.'

ArabellaScott · 13/01/2023 12:58

Well we all could have saved them some police time, frankly.

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